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Thread: Six of the 10 Top Ladies in the Worlds at Skate Amercia

  1. #16
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    And I presume you will be quoting these results and scores as if they were the most important events comparable to a World Championship.
    I wouldn't say comparable to a world championship, but I do think that these competitive athletes want to compete, they want to win, they want to beat the other guy at every competition that they skate in.

    To me, it seems like what people are saying is, oh, poor little Mirai, she faces some tough competition. Why didn't the USFSA babysit her into the finals by arranging easier assignments for her?

    Mirai's mind set at Skate America should be, "Poor Yu-na Kim. She has to skate against ME!"

  2. #17
    Sestriere 1999 ChrisH's Avatar
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    How about poor Nagasu+Nakano fans? Rochette was the 4th or 5th best skater during the GPs last season and lost out due to her draw. Nakano skated like the true 3 seed last year and she likely will do so again. Nagasu's propects are like Rochette's of last year plus she has to face off against two former World Champions at SA. And, if Nagasu is to make it into the final, she may have to do so at the expense of Nakano.

    I don't blame the USFS. The ISU should have a wildcard system. 5 spots based on placements points and 1 spot based on CoP points.

    Actually, I'm thinking poor Rochette fans. Zhang may do what Nakano did last year. And Zhang beat Kostner easily in Kostner's 1st GP last year.

  3. #18
    Custom Title fumie_fumie's Avatar
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    Rochette didn't make GPF last season, but she has the most consistent season since her senior debut. She made it to GPF in 2004 and then faltered at Worlds in 2005. She didn't get to GPF in 2005 but placed 5th in 2006 Olympics.

    I wouldn't make a big deal about whether a skater makes it to GPF or not. It will all come out in a wash at Worlds.

  4. #19
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    In Skate America, Flatt got YuNa, Yukari, Ando. Can't believe all events are fair. I'm not looking for whose fault that is.. I am just saying some very talented skaters are not going to make the Final. Why can't some see that point of view.
    Well of course some very talented skaters are not going to make the GPF, only six get a coveted place. At the very least you could say the top half of a world's draw are very talented skaters.

    I agree with others who have said - if you want to work out who is the best in the world, that is what we have worlds for. At the end of the season when everyone has hit their peak.

    The autumn season is more for people to test out their programs, compete against some of their contemporaries (but not all of them) and get to see how the land lies before they all retreat to train for their national championships and the ISU championships.

    Ant

  5. #20
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    I was reading the rules on how it is assigned for this year and it appears to me that an event can only have 2 skaters who are ranked 1 to 6 in the prior year's worlds and those two will be assigned by draw.

    Here is the link and it starts on page 3.

    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=956

    It is also my understanding that a host federation can choose up to three participants and if it chooses one participant who happens to be ranked 1 to 6 then the event can only have another top 6 skater. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    So for SA since no US girls made the top 6, Kim and Nakano were drawn and I assume randomly since it does mention it is a draw and not selected or invited.

    So the USFS chose 3 girls - Meisnner, Nagusu and Flatt.

    Not sure how Ando got in the mix but it would appear that her score of 177.66 (I assume nationals don't count) at the 08 Four Continents got her into 2 events under rule 2.1(c) since Sarah Meier finished 6 at worlds with 171.88. So maybe she was a random draw as well.

    I think Kostner just got lucky that she did not draw Kim or Asada in any of her events and not because her federation was smart in choosing events for her so she could reach the GPF.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltypig View Post
    I think Kostner just got lucky that she did not draw Kim or Asada in any of her events and not because her federation was smart in choosing events for her so she could reach the GPF.
    Kostner is not an outstanding early season skater, so she is vulnerable skating against anyone who can skate relatively clean programs.

    There's also one other group that had to be considered in the draws: the 7-12 group (Meissner, Lepisto, Korpi, Liang, Sebestyen, Dytryt) each of whom is entitled to two events. That means each host must have two skaters in this group.

    SA has Meissner (#7) and Dytryt (#12)
    SC and TEB have Korpi (#9) and Liang (#10)
    CoC has Lepisto (#8) and Sebestyen (#11)
    CoR has Meissner (#7) and Sebestyen (#11)
    NHK has Lepisto (#8) and Dytryt (#12)

  7. #22
    Moving up the testing structure Kypma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltypig View Post
    I think Kostner just got lucky that she did not draw Kim or Asada in any of her events and not because her federation was smart in choosing events for her so she could reach the GPF.
    Carolina Kostner was assured not to skate agains the other podium finishers from Worlds since the three are separated to have 2 events each, I believe. Same for the 4-6th place finishers; they won't skate against each other. I think the system goes by threes.

    Kypma

  8. #23
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    SA definitely has the most exciting lineup in ladies field, it's more like the battle of current generation vs the next generation. Although it'll be hard for either Rachael or Mirai to make the podium, never say never, they may be able to pull a Patrick Chan, just like what he did at TEB last year.

  9. #24
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    There is some excellent analyses going on in this thread. No one is talking about their personal favorite but the competition as it is laid out.

    The three Junior ladies, are the most promising American 'best' for this season. I was disappointed to see two of them in the same comp.

    Nagasu skates against YuNa, Flatt, and Mao.
    Zhang skates against Rochette twice - once against Kostner and once Mao
    Flat skates against YuNa, and Carolina and Meier - has a good chance for the Final

    Except for SA the 3 Graces do not skate against each other.

    Adding up the points should be a lot different than previous years. IMO, ties will be rampant.

    I reiterate my 'dress rehearsal' remark. Afterwards discussing who really looks good for the Worlds without nodding to the results of this uneven competition.

  10. #25
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltypig View Post
    So for SA since no US girls made the top 6, Kim and Nakano were drawn and I assume randomly since it does mention it is a draw and not selected or invited.
    I think the random draw means that the Federations have a draw to decide who gets to chose first, second, third, etc. , in each category. But then the winners of the draw (the federations) do get to choose which skater they want in each of the categories.

    Can anyone confirm if this right or not? Also, do they conduct a separate draw for order of choosing in each round, or once and for all?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think the random draw means that the Federations have a draw to decide who gets to chose first, second, third, etc. , in each category. But then the winners of the draw (the federations) do get to choose which skater they want in each of the categories.

    Can anyone confirm if this right or not? Also, do they conduct a separate draw for order of choosing in each round, or once and for all?
    They draw for order of choosing in each round. To do it any other way would be unfair.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I agree with you, but I do wish that USFS would make their choices on what is best for the skaters and less on what is best for ticket sales.

    Their choice has been to pack SA with as much US talent as they are allowed to.
    I think USFS made the right choice. Skate America has been a prestigious international competition since 1979, long before the Grand Prix was so much as a gleam in Cinquanta’s eye. I would be disappointed if USFS would do anything less than pack it with as much talent as possible under the rules. Final, schminal.

    Traditionally the point of the event was to invite the best the U.S. had to offer and let them compete against each other and against the international stars. Previous winners (before the Grand Prix and its forerunner, the ISU champions series, inaugerated in 1995) were Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, Joe Sabovcik, Christopher Bowman, Todd Eldredge, and Victor Petrenko.

    In 1990 the ladies podium was Yamaguchi, Ito and Kwiatkowski; in 1991 it was Harding, Yamaguchi and Bonaly; in 1993 it was Baiul, Bonaly and Harding; in 1994 it was Bonaly, Kwan and Slutskaya.

    In 1981 in pairs Underhill and Martini edged out Currutheres and Curruthers, and in 1989 it was Mishkutionok and Dmitriev over Yamaguchi and Galindo.

    Just because the Johnnie-come-lately ISU has horned in on the act (in order to grab its share of the revenues after the Tonya-Nancy episode), that's no reason, in my opinion, to water down the field.

    Just my opinion, of course.
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-19-2008 at 11:18 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think USFS made the right choice. Skate America has been a prestigious international competition since 1979, long before the Grand Prix was so much as a gleam in Cinquanta’s eye. I would be disappointed if USFS would do anything less than pack it with as much talent as possible under the rules. Final, schminal.

    Traditionally the point of the event was to invite the best the U.S. had to offer and let them compete against each other and against the international stars. Previous winners (before the Grand Prix and its forerunner, the ISU champions series, inaugerated in 1995) were Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, Joe Sabovcik, Christopher Bowman, Todd Eldredge, and Victor Petrenko.

    In 1990 the ladies podium was Yamaguchi, Ito and Kwiatkowski; in 1991 it was Harding, Yamaguchi and Bonaly; in 1993 it was Baiul, Bonaly and Harding; in 1994 it was Bonaly, Kwan and Slutskaya.

    In 1981 in pairs Underhill and Martini edged out Currutheres and Curruthers, and in 1989 it was Mishkutionok and Dmitriev over Yamaguchi and Galindo.

    Just because the Johnnie-come-lately ISU has horned in on the act (in order to grab its share of the revenues after the Tonya-Nancy episode), that's no reason, in my opinion, to water down the field.

    Just my opinion, of course.
    I agree with you 100%. I'm glad they don't water down the field just so their skaters can win. If I were running USFS, or even if I were a coach, I'd rather that the US girls go against the best skaters in the world early in the season, even if it means no trip to the final. If they don't fare well against the Yu-Na's, the Mao's, etc, then they at least know what they need to work on for Worlds, and maybe it will light a little fire under their buns. No sense in lulling them into a false sense of security by giving them easy competitors at SA and then being surprised when they get beaten convincingly at 4CC or Worlds, when the best of the best show up. Any great competitor wants to win against the best, they don't want to win because they were in a weak field. Would you want to win a title, only to have it talked down for the rest of your career because "so-and-so wasn't there"? I wouldn't. Bring on the competition and may the best (wo)man win. ANd thats all I have to say about that.

  14. #29
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    Damned if they do, and damned if they don't. They (USFS) would have been criticized even if they didn't "pack" SA with their best skaters. I think SA needs to be packed, especially this year because attendance needs a badly-needed boost. Hopefully we can get some better TV coverage as well, or maybe IceNetwork can slowly improve the quality of their stream.

  15. #30
    Sestriere 1999 ChrisH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    I think SA needs to be packed, especially this year because attendance needs a badly-needed boost. Hopefully we can get some better TV coverage as well, or maybe IceNetwork can slowly improve the quality of their stream.
    Agree about inviting the best possible and boosting attendance. I thought that the camera work and audio system at Reading, Pennsylvania was good. (Zhang's 3 day performance in Reading was my favorite of the year partly because the coverage was better there.) It was a well run event, but did lack in attendance and perhaps could've been more glitzy. What are the prospects for Everett, Washington?

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