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Thread: Six of the 10 Top Ladies in the Worlds at Skate Amercia

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    It has seemed to me that recently Canada picks to be sure that its top skater in each event has a good chance at a medal--and hence to make the GPF, resulting in winners that are not always medallists at worlds.

    And it appears that's so, from your list. Interesting.
    I don't think that's really it - they still had to pick from the 1-3 and 4-6 ranking the same as every one else. But given Canada had someone in the top 6 in mens, dance and pairs recently they would have someone who should be in the medals. As for ladies Joannie may not have done her best at worlds in the past but she would be in the medal hunt in any GP event she entered in the past few years especailly since she usually did better in the GP events then at worlds in the past.

  2. #47
    it's olympic season :D bethissoawesome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    My two cents.

    1. I do not agree with basing the finals on garnering CoP points rather than on winning individual events. To me, this would take all the interest out of the individual events. Each skater would just be skating against him/herself, trying to beat his/her personal best or wthaever. The sense of a competition would be lost. The effect would be as if each skater stayed home, skated a practice program, and mailed in the score.
    Isn't the point of almost any individual sport to improve upon yourself and not just in comparison to others? Say Yu-Na, etc. wasn't around to challenge Mao. Should she and we just be content with her doing just enough to stay in first place without ever improving, because there was no need to improve without a challenger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kypma View Post
    I think the problem with using the CoP points is that judging panels aren't necessarily consistent from one competition to the other. Actually, some just plain aren't. Remember Skate America and Skate Canada last year? The technical specialist (?) at SA was much stricter on downgrades than the one at SCI, and this discrepancy resulted in lower scores. Still, I agree tha tthe old method on placings isn't great, either...

    Kypma
    Maybe they should just use the same judging panel for all of the Grand Prix events (minus the Final, to take away the predictability factor) LOL. Then they could just add up CoP scores like everyone wants.

  3. #48
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    ^

    I believe the ISU and particularly USFS are under the impression that true fans of figure skating love any kind of managed competitions, and will accept whatever is offered. Ardent fans love the musicality of the sport and are nourished to see it in any form of contests.

    By eliminating the skaters choices, the Feds have full power to pick and choose, particularly the Big Six, based on the formula outline by the ISU. There is money making here - some to fill the Big Six's needs to tend to their skaters. The nonBig Six Feds are not able to get anything of this, except the prize money of their skaters if they qualify.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bethissoawesome View Post
    Isn't the point of almost any individual sport to improve upon yourself and not just in comparison to others?
    For the skaters, yes, I agree. For instance, I was tickled to death that Bebe Liang made the U.S. world team and skated great once she got there.

    But I was thinking more in terms of figure skating as a spectator sport. I think what the fans like to see is a hard-fought nail-biter, who is going to win, who is going to lose, who is going to make the finals? I wouldn't want to see the Grand Prix events lose that kind of excitement.

  5. #50
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    I'm actually really worried for Yu-na... In the sense that after at last year's worlds that the judges in someways dumped her by putting Kostner ahead of her.. I know Yu-na made mistakes in the short and long, but Kostner was terrible and they gave Kostner second place over Yu-na.

    Yu-na does not come from a powerful federation and now with the American girls coming up, and the Japanese girls, the Japanese federation has a lot of power, and Mao with Tarasova is certainly helpful for Mao politically... I'm just really worried that the judges are going to start screwing Yu-na..

    Maybe I'm wrong. maybe they will realize that it's great to have Koreans into the sport and stuff. But I don't know.

    There were reports that many Europeans wanted a European/American to be on top at last years worlds they think the Asian "invasion" is bad for the sport. I just don't want the judges to dump her.

  6. #51
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    Not bad, necessarily but a power shift, that's for sure.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    Not bad, necessarily but a power shift, that's for sure.
    I'm all for the Asian invasion if the Asians are the best skaters. Personally.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    There were reports that many Europeans wanted a European/American to be on top at last years worlds they think the Asian "invasion" is bad for the sport.
    I am always curious about reports like this. Where did these "reports" originate, and which "Europeans" think the success of Asian skaters is bad for the sport? How exactly is it supposed to be "bad" for a skater of one nationality rather than another to win a championship?

    I guess it all depends on who is doing the invading. Did anyone complain when Russia won three out of four gold medals at Torino, or when Canada had great results at Worlds last year?

  9. #54
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I am always curious about reports like this. Where did these "reports" originate, and which "Europeans" think the success of Asian skaters is bad for the sport? How exactly is it supposed to be "bad" for a skater of one nationality rather than another to win a championship?

    I guess it all depends on who is doing the invading. Did anyone complain when Russia won three out of four gold medals at Torino, or when Canada had great results at Worlds last year?
    someone on FSU on their secret sources said that they talked to several figure skating officials. And they said that while it's great skating is growing popular in Japan and stuff. What the sport really needs is a Pretty European American girl to attract Western audiences.

    Well we all saw what happened in the short program didn't we, when Kostner was put ahead of a lovely Mao, and what almost happened in the long.. Dick Button also said something after Nakano was jobbed that he felt it had to do with the "Asian Invasion." Hey maybe I'm wrong and the person was lying. But look what happened at that particular competition. And I can totally see people thinking this, then realizing that perhaps the problems with the sport are the judging issues, lack of actually trying to market it's own stars, and the new system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    And they said that while it's great skating is growing popular in Japan and stuff. What the sport really needs is a Pretty European American girl to attract Western audiences.
    That seems odd to me since Asian-American women like Michelle Kwan and Kristi Yamaguchi were great for the popularity of the sport. I don't think people cared that they weren't "Pretty European girls". I'm sure that it wouldn't hurt if figure skating had it's own Maria Sharapova or Anna Ivanovic to win all the competitions but obviously it doesn't need a pretty caucasian girl to make the sport popular. Anyways, isn't men's FS more popular in Europe anyways? The men's side always has a few good-looking European boys.

  11. #56
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviechick View Post
    That seems odd to me since Asian-American women like Michelle Kwan and Kristi Yamaguchi were great for the popularity of the sport. I don't think people cared that they weren't "Pretty European girls". I'm sure that it wouldn't hurt if figure skating had it's own Maria Sharapova or Anna Ivanovic to win all the competitions but obviously it doesn't need a pretty caucasian girl to make the sport popular. Anyways, isn't men's FS more popular in Europe anyways? The men's side always has a few good-looking European boys.
    Yes but Kristi was American... Yu-na Kim, Mao Asada, Miki Ando, and Yukari Nakano are not... The idea is that American public European public won't go for a non American.

    Europeans non European. That's the reason figure skating isn't big? So let's put a pretty European girl on the medal stand...

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    There were reports that many Europeans wanted a European/American to be on top at last years worlds they think the Asian "invasion" is bad for the sport. I just don't want the judges to dump her.
    Bekalc - Where are these reports? Can you say who originated them? I hope you have a better answer than you had on the other thread that you remember them, but......
    I'm not doubting you. It's just with an accusation of prejudice it becomes tantamount to bad sportsmanship. Can't believe any group of Europeans would say that vocally.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Bekalc - Where are these reports? Can you say who originated them? I hope you have a better answer than you had on the other thread that you remember them, but......
    I'm not doubting you. It's just with an accusation of prejudice it becomes tantamount to bad sportsmanship. Can't believe any group of Europeans would say that vocally.
    They didn't say if it was European or American, it could have been both. And what they said is basically they think having an American or a European star would make the sport grow in America/Europe. I'm not sure "if that's racial prejudice" because sadly how many foreign athletes are really popular in the USA?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Yes but Kristi was American... Yu-na Kim, Mao Asada, Miki Ando, and Yukari Nakano are not... The idea is that American public won't go for a non American [and the European public won't go for a non-Europeans. That's the reason figure skating isn't big? So let's put a pretty European girl on the medal stand...
    (I hope understood your post correctly.)

    This is certainly not a new idea. When successive ladies worlds champions were Ito, Yamaguchi, Sato, Chen and Kwan, with only Oksana Baiul sneaking in there one year, there was talk about the domination of the sport by Asian and Asian-American ladies. There was a lot of speculation about whether Kristi got her fair share of publicity and endorsements out of her Olympic gold medal, compared to "America's sweethearts" of the past, like Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill.

    One would like to hope that people don't care as much about stuff like that any more. Anyway, we'll see how the American (and European) public takes to Caroline Zhang and Mirai Nagasu -- unless Rachael Flatt blows them all away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moviechick
    Isn't men's FS more popular in Europe anyways? The men's side always has a few good-looking European boys.
    And all those good-looking European boys are immensely popular in Asia!

  15. #60
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    (I hope understood your post correctly.)

    This is certainly not a new idea. When successive ladies worlds champions were Ito, Yamaguchi, Sato, Chen and Kwan, with only Oksana Baiul sneaking in there one year, there was talk about the domination of the sport by Asian and Asian-American ladies. There was a lot of speculation about whether Kristi got her fair share of publicity and endorsements out of her Olympic gold medal, compared to "America's sweethearts" of the past, like Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill.

    One would like to hope that people don't care as much about stuff like that any more. Anyway, we'll see how the American (and European) public takes to Caroline Zhang and Mirai Nagasu -- unless Rachael Flatt blows them all away.And all those good-looking European boys are immensely popular in Asia!
    And what's interesting to is pretty Asian girls are immensely popular in America... I think that if they actually tried to market Yu-na and Mao, they might be pleasantly surprised at the reception they got. I know someone who is the most casual fan of figure skating, didn't even know the people's names but happened to watch the World Championships. And just loved Yu-na said she reminded her of Kwan... And was petty mad about Kostner over taking her.

    I remember a tape where no one at COI (Japanese documentary) knew who Arakawa was, but afterwards one person was like she's the best I ever saw... So I really don't by the whole Americans won't take to Asian figure skaters (or Europeans) the issue the ISU doesnt' want to do its job and market it's stars.
    Last edited by bekalc; 06-28-2008 at 11:51 PM.

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