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Thread: ISU Congress- Decisions bring new rules

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    The burr up Speedy's Butt! visaliakid's Avatar
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    ISU Congress- Decisions bring new rules

    Decisions made at 52nd ISU Ordinary Congress: Ice dancing is hit hardest by new rules

    Ice Dancing to become two part competition with the start of the 2010 - 2011 competitive season. New Dance format for part one to be tested and analysed.

    New CD - the Finnstep ratified.

    Full agenda here!

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    The Zamboni Rocks!!! sillylionlove's Avatar
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    Interesting....sure wish they would have given more information....but they are doing away with so many required elements so that there can be more innovation!! It's about time!!!

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Finally, the Dancers will get back at least a little freedom in the Free Dance.

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    Question

    As the information was posted under this heading
    Single and Pair Skating and Ice Dance

    it sounded to me like all the skaters/teams would benefit from more freedom in the FS, not just the dancers. Did I misunderstand?

    I hope it does apply to all disciplines. That would be great thing for skaters and fans alike.
    Last edited by merrybari; 06-20-2008 at 07:07 PM.

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    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    I wonder if they will delete the OD or the CD. I would remove the OD. The CD seems necessary to show the traditional patterns and the basics etc.. the OD just seems like a mini freedance. then again, the OD if more TV freindly. the CD seems like figures.... not very interesting to the average viewer.

    If they did get rid of the compulsories, that would help Tanith and Ben... not in time for the olympics though.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrybari View Post
    As the information was posted under this heading
    Single and Pair Skating and Ice Dance, it sounded to me like all the skaters/teams would benefit from more freedom in the FS, not just the dancers. Did I misunderstand?

    I hope it does apply to all disciplines. That would be great thing for skaters and fans alike.
    I think it does not apply to the free dance, but only to singles free programs (not sure about pairs.)

    In the ladies' free skate, I think one of the required spins was eliminated (so now it's three instead of four). In junior ladies the required spiral was eliminated. I think they also tweaked the requirements for step sequences and spins, wihth regard to how many seconds for each position, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    I wonder if they will delete the OD or the CD. I would remove the OD. The CD seems necessary to show the traditional patterns and the basics etc. The OD just seems like a mini freedance. .
    I believe the original proposal was to combine the compulsory dance and the original dance into one dance, called the "combination dance." It is my understanding that they were not able to come to an agreement on the details of what this combination dance would be like, so they just passed a resolution approving of the idea "in principle."
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-20-2008 at 08:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think it does not apply to the free dance, but only to singles free programs (not sure about pairs.)

    In the ladies' free skate, I think one of the required spins was eliminated (so now it's three instead of four). In junior ladies the required spiral was eliminated. I think they also tweaked the requirements for step sequences and spins, wihth regard to how many seconds for each position, etc.I believe the original proposal was to combine the compulsory dance and the original dance into one dance, called the "combination dance." It is my understanding that they were not able to come to an agreement on the details of what this combination dance would be like, so they just passed a resolution approving of the idea "in principle."
    Does it say what has been removed from the men's singles?

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    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    It's really hard to give an acurate judgement of the decisions taken as the ISU haven't released a detailed statement.
    I'm not sure I like the idea of getting rid of the CD as it shows skaters' pure dancing ability.
    I hope the fact that they're reducing the amount of required elements will mean more freedom and not less technical programs.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrybari View Post
    Does it say what has been removed from the men's singles?
    As NatachaHatawa says above, we (at least, I) don't know yet exactly what was passed. But the proposal from the Technical Committee to the full assembly was, I believe, to eliminate one of the two step sequences.

    For ladies the proposal was to alternate between a step sequence and a spiral sequence, but not both in the same program. So one year you would do a step sequence in the SP and a spiral sequece in the LP, then the next year it would switch around.

    The rationale of this proposed change was that step sequences and spiral sequences take up too much time for the amount of points they are worth. That time could be better spent working on transitions and choreography.

    Ladies, I presume, could still do an extra spiral as a "move in the field," but not as a separate scored element.

    For junior men, the new SP rules allow them to do a triple Axel or a double Axel as their required "Axel-type jump" (formerly it had to be a double Axel.) However, if you do a triple Axel then you can't do another triple Axel in combination as your required combo.

    I think the point of this rule change is just to catch up with the technical advances of the sport. Now quite a few junior men have a triple Axel.
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-21-2008 at 03:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    For ladies the proposal was to alternate between a step sequence and a spiral sequence, but not both in the same program. So one year you would do a step sequence in the SP and a spiral sequece in the LP, then the next year it would switch around.
    I originally thought this proposal (#288-289) applied to Senior/Junior ladies also, but it applies to Senior/Junior pairs.

    Unofficially, here are the Singles and Pairs Technical Rule Proposals that I have heard passed at the ISU Congress (link to the Agenda with the proposal nos., starting on page 67):
    Nos. 246-298, 300-301, 305-307, 311-321.
    Accepted with an amendment (no further details at this time): nos. 299, 303-304.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 06-21-2008 at 05:34 PM.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    I originally thought this proposal (#288-289) applied to Senior/Junior ladies also, but it applies to Senior/Junior pairs.
    Thanks for the clarification. The rule change does make more sense for pairs. Spirals and footwork sequences do not really add much to a pairs program anyway, and kind of detracts from the main idea of "two people skating as one."

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    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    As NatachaHatawa says above, we (at least, I) don't know yet exactly what was passed. But the proposal from the Technical Committee to the full assembly was, I believe, to eliminate one of the two step sequences.

    For ladies the proposal was to alternate between a step sequence and a spiral sequence, but not both in the same program. So one year you would do a step sequence in the SP and a spiral sequece in the LP, then the next year it would switch around.

    The rationale of this proposed change was that step sequences and spiral sequences take up too much time for the amount of points they are worth. That time could be better spent working on transitions and choreography.
    Man do I miss the old system!

    I'm all for skaters not having to do 2 step sequences, but with the CoP, if a skater decides to do 2, then the second won't get credit for it, which isn't really fair. Sometimes having 2 step sequences is brilliant (I thinking of Alexei Yagudin, Brian Joubert, Evgeni Plushenko, Daisuke Takahashi...) so it would be a shame if skaters could only do one.

    As for ladies swapping between step sequences and spirals, I'm not so sure. Why not if they can chose in which program they put each, but if it's the ISU that decides then I don't really agree with it.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ According to Sylvia's post above, I was wrong in saying that this change about spirals and step sequences is for ladies. It is for pairs. (This is hard to figure out from the ISU documents. Rule 521 mentions both single and pairs, while proposals 288 and 289 do not specify which it is talking about.) I guess we will have to wait for further announcements to get the full picture.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Thanks Sylvia - I got through about half of it, but I'm needing a tonic to keep me awake. Overlooking Speed Skating, I have not yet reached anything on Ice Dance. I'll try to finish this soon.

    Please correct me, so I get a better picture. It seems from the Agenda, that proposals are discussed. It would be nice if we had copies of the reports which were taken up. Are they issued to interested fans? We did have a list of proposals from coaches. However, the agenda item says that only a summary of input by coaches, skaters, and officials were taken up. I didn't see any decisions of the proposals of coaches and skaters.

    I did see a proposal of Russia to ensure the rules on secret judging.

    They are changing the number of judges from 12 to 10 for the Olys. Does that include the ISU competitions too? There will be a substitute judge whose scoring will not count. Confused. What is that all about. Help!

    It does mention that all Jr.GPs' judges count and names of the judges will be publicized. I presume it would easy now to check the name of the judge by his position in the panel with his score since there are no 'dropped judges'.

    Would Sr. GPs, Euros and 4CCs also use all the judges with names publicized?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post

    They are changing the number of judges from 12 to 10 for the Olys. Does that include the ISU competitions too? There will be a substitute judge whose scoring will not count. Confused. What is that all about. Help!
    The Olympics have always had 9 FS judges, with one a substitute.

    It does mention that all Jr.GPs' judges count and names of the judges will be publicized. I presume it would easy now to check the name of the judge by his position in the panel with his score since there are no 'dropped judges'.
    If you think back to the discussions on this and other boards about the very controversial JGPF ice dance competition, yes, for Junior competitions, you know exactly which judge produced which score.


    Would Sr. GPs, Euros and 4CCs also use all the judges with names publicized?
    No. Only Junior competitions.

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