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Thread: Jealousy/Envy

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Jealousy/Envy

    These are fighting words posters read after competitions:

    I believe that Jealousy is that someone has a skill better than mine.

    I belive that Envy is that someone has a skill that I desire.

    COLOR=red]1. Correct me, please, if I am wrong![/COLOR]

    However, another form of (I need a noun) is in the following:

    I want MK to win the Competition, and if she does not win the competition, I want anyone else to win it except Irina.

    2. What exactly is the (nasty) feeling I am showing?

    (Note:The examples of MK and Irina are pure examples. I do like Irina.)

    Joe

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    Re: Jealousy/Envy

    Originally posted by Joesitz
    I want MK to win the Competition, and if she does not win the competition, I want anyone else to win it except Irina.

    2. What exactly is the (nasty) feeling I am showing?


    Spite.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    No doubt about the 'spite'. I would even add 'hate',but I was looking for a more technical term to go with jealousy and envy.

    What ever it is, I do read a lot of it in the posts especially with the 'lose wish' of several figure skaters (no names, I don't want to start the worm can.)

    I for one, would readily admit, "If the Mets lost the World Series, I would be satified for any team to win except the Yankees". Not nice, of course, but the feeling is there. I'll deal with it.
    But what is that feeling called?

    Joe

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    Joe, THE psychologist of GS. You know, when things go really bad here, it is a pleasure to log on and see you trying to keep everyone cool. You really have earned that title(was your custom title) on the old site.

    Re:

    I want MK to win the Competition, and if she does not win the competition, I want anyone else to win it except Irina.

    resentful of a person's advantage might be a good one.

    IRINA is MICHELE's major competitor. She can beat MICHELE and has done so in the past. Hence, IRINA has an advantage over say, SASHA who still has to challenge MICHELE.

    So, a fan of MICHELE is resentful of IRINA's advantage.

    Warning:

    MICHELE, IRINA and SASHA are fictional skaters and no way related to Michele Kwan, Irina Slutskaya and Sasha Cohen.
    Last edited by bleuchick; 08-27-2003 at 09:33 PM.

  5. #5
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Jealousy/Envy

    Joe:

    I think the word you are seeking here is:

    CONTEMPT

    contempt /kntmpt/ n. [U] a low opinion of s.o., (syn.) scorn: She has contempt for anyone who is not as intelligent as she is. -adj. contemptuous /kntmptus/.

    2. What exactly is the (nasty) feeling I am showing?

    The feeling you are showing towards Irene (your example) is contempt.

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    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    OBNOXIOUS comes to mind!

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    Envy and Jealousy are very similar, but the word 'jealous' is correctly applied in a situation of position or possession and fear of possibly losing it.

    dictionary.comm - jealous

    However, the thesaurus lists jealousy as a synonym for envy:

    thesaurus.com - envy

    -Cyn

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    For envy you might consider, acrimony, which my dictionary defines as bitterness or ill-natured animosity especially in speech or manner, or another choice would be malevolence which is defined as ill will toward others. Synonyms for malevolence are rancor and malice.

    For jealousy, you might consider the word, begrudge, as it is defined as "resentment toward the possessor and unwillingness to acknowledge his right or claim."

  9. #9
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    Great topic, Joe. It's just these kind of what I call "hidden bashings" or a word from Zande, New Guinea, sanza (SON-zah) "disguised insult," that are one of the things that can make forum exchanges unpleasant. Interesting and thought-provoking to try to nail down exactly what feelings are being expressed by your oft-used "except Skater X" sanza.

    Actually your "except Irina" example has some elements of "disguised insult," but it's not the whole thing. The following word also does not define the whole feeling your example is getting at, but I find it to be a useful one when jealousy and envy are around. I bet you know it. It's a German word, Schaddenfreude, (SHOD-en-froid), noun, def: "Joy that one feels as a result of someone else's misfortune." In your "except Irina" example it might be "hoped for Schaddenfreude." in that the person saying it hopes to feel joy when Irina does not win. (Note: I couldn't use italics everywhere I was supposed to because they messed up the setting of the post. Just pretend the italics are there)

    In the book "They Have a Word for It," author Howard Rheingold says this about Schaddenfreude: "Since this word strikes deep into the mysterious heart of the human condition, nobody is quite sure what the idea really means. Because it names the phenomenon but does not explain it, Schaddenfreude can be an all-purpose, tailored to your feelings at the time you see an opportunity to use it. The next time somebody trips and spills his popcorn, prompting your companion to burst into laughter and then look at you guiltily, you can choose a world-weary but essentially sympathetic expression and say with warmth tinged by sadness, 'Ah, Schaddenfreude.' Or you can look condescending and coldly say, 'Ah, Schaddenfreude.' Unless of course, you choose neutrality and shrug your shoulders, adopt a puzzled facial expression, and mutter, in a baffled tone, 'Ah, Schaddenfreude.'"

    Off-topic but on the positive side, here's a Japenese word skating fans may like: aware, (ah-WAH-ray), noun, def: "The feelings engendered by ephemeral beauty." For example, one might say, "Watching Michelle skate tonight was a real meditation on aware."

    So let's hope for a skating season of much aware and minimal Schaddenfreude.
    Rgirl
    Last edited by Rgirl; 08-29-2003 at 06:39 AM.

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    I'd submit CHAUVINISM:

    "excessive or blind patriotism" according to Merriam-Webster.

    However, I quite like schadenfraude... I think it generally means to take some satisfaction in the misfortune of others.

    :D :D

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Bleuchick - Thanks for your kind words., and also for pointing out the warning!

    All - Thanks for the offerings of what I think as something beyond jealousy and envy.

    rGirl - You got it right on!! Shodenfroid! I had heard that word before but could not remember it. Now I'm going to wonder about Awaray.

    Everyone: Here's where I stand:

    I am jealous of Evgeny's triple axel, It is better than mine.

    I am envious of Evgeny's quad salchow. I can't do one.

    I am Shodenfroid about Evgeny's possible win at the Olys.

    Joe


    Warning: It's Evgeny Rodriguez

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    Wow! I got something right?! Kewl.

    BTW, I've seen various spellings of schaddenfreude. I used the one from Rheingold's book, but my German-English dictionary has a different spelling of it.

    BTW, I agree that there is a difference, albeit an overlapping one, between jealousy and envy. The smaller dictionaries tend not to go into it, but the big honkin' dictionaries detail the differences. For example, in the big honkin' "American Heritage Dictionary" the primary defininition of "envy" is: "A feeling of discontent and resentment aroused by and in conjuntion with desire for the possissions or qualities of another." "Bregrduge" and "covet" are listed as synonyms.

    The "AHD" primary definition of "jealousy" is: "Feeling fearful or wary of being supplanted; apprehensive of losing affection or position." "Covetous" and "envious" are listed as synonyms. The quintessential "same but different."
    Rgirl

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    Off-topic but on the positive side, here's a Japenese word skating fans may like: aware, (ah-WAH-ray), noun, def: "The feelings engendered by ephemeral beauty."

    -Another person posted this earlier (I'm sorry I'm still getting the hang of all this cutting/pasting and posting stuff) - I think it was Rgirl? Something like that.

    What a wonderful, wonderful word that so aptly describes the way I feel watching skating (at times). I've never been able to describe it - I just know I feel overwhelmed w/emotion. This Japanese noun is perfect, perfect, perfect.

    Thank you for giving me a word for those feelings!!!!

  14. #14
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Awarway - YES!

    Shodenfroid - NO!

    But it would be nice if the Yankees lost to Boston.

    Joe

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    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    YES! I feel that way, too! No matter how many years it's been since I left Boston, I'll always have a soft spot for the Red Sox!

    Sigh.

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