New ISU guidelines for positive GOEs | Page 2 | Golden Skate

New ISU guidelines for positive GOEs

ChrisH

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
There are older guidelines for positive GOEs, at least for US judging. I assume the following were based on an older ISU document:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/JS12-Singles-GOE-SP.pdf
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/JS13-Singles-GOE-FS.pdf

Adding creativity/originality is the obvious across the board change to the GOEs. :clap:

The PCS criteria should have creativity/originality more explicitly stated. At the moment it settles on variety, which only separates elements within the same program, not across multiple programs. Also, to have variety, IMO it pays to be faster and emphasis quantity. Not so with creativity/originality which emphasizes quality.
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152086-169302-64121-0-file,00.pdf
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Voronov is a good example. In the 6.0 and the CoP he would have scored the same. So why tag all those bullets on to breaking down an element. It does make it more interesting for those who want a partial explanation of the scoring of an element. "Oh how beautiful he looked in the air!" but he to did a wrong edge take off Means he didn't do the jump correctly (technical) but he looked good doing it (presentation) and this will mediate the GoE for that jump, and it will not affect the PCS scores?
Well, all those bullets -- that's the CoP. The whole point of the CoP is to list as many "bullets" as possible, then check them off and add up the score. Many people (I am one of them) have come more and more to feel that this whole approach is wrong.

Actually, I think your basic idea is dandy.

1. Give a base score for a correctly done element.

2. Have specific deductions for specific errors (double footing the landing, for instance.)

3. Now, what about extra high quality? That goes into the PCSs.

(a) Outstanding flow out of the landing = Skating Skills.

(b) Unusual entrance out of steps = Transitions

(c) Extra pop and pizzaz = Presentation/Execution.

(d) Timing the jump to the music = Interpretation

(e) Does the jump fit into the conception of the program as a whole? = Choreography.

Why do we need positive GOEs?
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Does this mean we will finally see again...:

1. Real footwork directly into jumps
2. SHOOT THE DUCK!!!! YEAH! Wanna see someone do that into a Lutz Jump!
3. Hydroblading into jumps
4. Ice Split into T.Toe or T.Loop (That would be hard!)
5. Standstill D.axle (days of Surya Bonaly....)
6. And My Personal Favorite: The Half - Axle into T.Salchow

I'm just excited about this. Variation at last. I just hope that not everyone does a spread eagle into a jump, but actually try some new and different tricks.
You are lucky if you see jumps from a shoot the duck or hydroblading. If you give an example, they do not jump from that down position, but rise up, take a breath and jump in the normal way. Those moves are very tireing for the skater like going all th way down in a sitsspin. Are you old enough to remember when skaters (particularly male) would do a straight leg sitspin go down all the way, come up and go down again with equal revolutions. Boy did that take the spring out of their legs. I think one has to consider the points gained by doing these leg tiring moves.

Loved Bonaly's move but don't know what a half axel is.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Well, all those bullets -- that's the CoP. The whole point of the CoP is to list as many "bullets" as possible, then check them off and add up the score.
:laugh: Do they really have time to do all that? Scenario: Oh, he did a Tano, he was a bit askewd in the air, and I think he really flutzed, it wasn't really innovativ - and for each jump, and each skater - yeah.

Why do we need positive GOEs?
Personally, I think it should be covered in the PCS.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Just for fun, I wondered how much agreement/disagreement typically exists in the GOEs. Here are Jeff Buttle’s GOEs on jump scores from his Worlds LP (all scores, before random draw and trimming.) The last three columns are the mean, standard deviation (a measure of how far off a typical judge is from the average), and the number of judges who were more than two standard deviations out of line. (IIRC the “corridore” for bringing a judge’s scores to the attention of the judges’ evaluation committee is plus or minus three standard deviations.)

3A+2T+2Lo…0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 2 1 1, Mean = 0.5, SD = 0.76, None outside.
3F+3T……….1 1 1 1 2 0 2 2 1 2 2 1, Mean = 1.33, SD = 0.62, One
3A……………1 0 0 0 2 0 1 0 1 2 0 0, Mean = 0.58, SD = 0.76, None
3Lz+2T………1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 0 0 Mean = 1.08, SD = 0.28, One
3Lo…………..2 1 1 1 1 0 1 2 0 2 1 1, Mean = 1.08, SD = 0.64, None
3S……………0 1 2 0 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 0, Mean = 1.25, SD = 0.83, None
2A……………0 1 1 1 2 0 2 2 0 2 2 1, Mean = 1.17, SD = 0.80, None
3Lz…………..0 0 0 –1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0, Mean = 0.08, SD = 0.28, One.

I guess there was nothing controversial in Jeff’s performance…

But now, for us grassy knoll buffs…Note that Jeff had a friend on the panel. Judge number 10 gave him +2 on every element but the last. Yet Canada did not have a judge on the men’s panel.

Your task, should you choose to accept it…search the protocols of the other three disciplines (Canada did have a judge for Ladies, Pairs, and Dance) and figure out who men’s judge #10 was in cahoots with. :cool:
 

Hsuhs

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Note that Jeff had a friend on the panel. Judge number 10 gave him +2 on every element but the last. Yet Canada did not have a judge on the men’s panel.

I think, he did have a friend, but not on the panel. The tech controller was Ms. Sally REHORICK. Jeff did win fairly though, with that boring and cautious, yet technically perfect, program. There was nothing controversial in Jeff’s performance, IMHO.
 

bethissoawesome

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Some of those points are pretty vague... "unexpected" for jumps? "creativity", "originality"... it made me laugh thinking of the spiral sequences for ladies, because the best spirals are generally.... the same.

Even with these additional points, I'm sure GOE's will still be scattered across the board. Someone will give a negative GOE to something that another judge will give a +2. /shrug
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I am pretty sure that Kimmie Meissner did a hyroblade just before her 3 loop this past season, but I could be wrong.
 

bethissoawesome

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
how about extra points for a nice creative butt slide exit on a jump? hehe. bonus if you slide far enough to hit the wall.
 

icetitch07

Spectator
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Pass mark...

I am so confused by some of the new regulations which seem to conflict within themselves.
But i was wondering whether, with the junior men, because they now have only one step sequence in the long programme, does that mean the pass mark has changed. I don't know if in the US there is a pass mark for junior mens but if any one knows i'd really appreciate it!
x
:biggrin:
 
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