If warm-ups and skating order were changed...

Say, instead of having group warm-up sessions for each group of six skaters and announcing the scores for a skate right after it is completed, what if each skater had a set warm up time right before their skate (for example, say 5 minutes). During the skater's 5 minute warm-up time, the judges could then critique the previous skaters jumps and edges in slow motion, double check things, then conclude on GOE's and submit scores after that 5 minute period. (I hope that makes sense). What do you think it would do for the consistency of technical calls and GOE's and PCS's? How would it affect the skaters' performances having warm-up times right before their skates.. taking away desired positions for warm-ups?

This is interesting and it may work for the skaters and the COP, but it wouldn't work for the show and the people watching hwell:

Well, if you multiply 5 minutes x 4.5 minutes x 30 skaters you would get 11.25 hours for Men's LP. That's a long day of skating and judging.

But I see your point. Giving the judges more time to digest what they saw is a good way to go. Unfortunately, I do not think it is practical.

I like this idea and have always felt bad for the first and last skater in any group. Having to conserve energy and being unable to use the full warm-up or having to wait so long to take the ice to compete are both unenviable positions for competitive skaters. For it to work, the SP and LP groups would have to be split into 2 days of competition per discipline and the same judging panel would have to be used both days obviously to keep it fair. For example, for the mens' SP, the first 4 groups based on world ranking would compete on one day followed by the last 4 groups based on world ranking the next day. Then, in the mens' LP, the first 2 groups based on short program placements (24-13) would compete followed by the last 2 groups based on short program placements (12-1) the next day. That's 4 days of competition for only one discipline. I don't see the ISU or all the skating federations or all the skaters' families being able to finance the extra accommodations (housing/food/travel) for all the skaters, the coaches, and the judges to allot the needed time. I wish it could work, though . . . I'd love to see that happen.

^^
That would give the conspirators a whole day to revamp their plan and it will still be 11.25 hours if you bring on the Ladies. It would be 4 days for the Men and 4 days for the Ladies plus a method to hold the Elimination Round. What happens to the rest of the disciplines. Maybe they could be held at a later date altogther. Doubt it. Think of NBC schedule.

The concept is good on several levels but it just aint practical. Besides, I think the host Governments are going bananas trying to figure out what the Elimination Round will be if there are 57 skaters each in Ladies and Men.

I've often wondered why they don't let the skaters warm up on a second adjacent rink right before they compete. Every arena I've been to has at least 2 rinks. Why not put the second one to good use? Or are they holding competitions on both rinks?

Many places where they hold the big events (Nationals, Worlds, Olys) only have one arena in that building. For local comps, they tend to have both rinks going simulataneously (or close to it). Usually the skater will stroke around and do a few things while they wait for the previous skater's score to be announced/input to the system

In the US and most other countries, I believe, Figure Skating is held in their Municipal Arenas. In NYC, there are adjacent rinks at Chelsea Piers but there isn't that much space for seating thousands

Madison Square Garden is super expensive.

Joesitz said:

In the US and most other countries, I believe, Figure Skating is held in their Municipal Arenas. In NYC, there are adjacent rinks at Chelsea Piers but there isn't that much space for seating thousands

Madison Square Garden is super expensive.

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The set up for Chelsea Piers Ice Rink is IMPOSSIBLE to have a real (Grand Prix, etc.) type competition in. The seating is limited like you said, and it isn't viewer friendly. The only side with seating has gigantic plastic walls surrounding the rink as well, because it is used mainly for hockey.


As for the 5 minute warm-up idea... it would definitely work in Grand Prix competitions where the number of skaters is limited. You wouldn't need a whole 5 minutes really. You could still do a group warm-up and perhaps a 2 minute individual warm-up/review time.

Another option for larger competitions like Worlds, Nats, etc. is to only do the individual time review time for the top competitors... maybe top 10 or so or those within range of reaching podium or top 6 after the short. The scoring differences are so slight between the skaters at the top that one wrong call can win it or lose it. :-/

Actually it's 5 minutes warmup plus 4.5 minutes freeskate per skater, not times. That's 9.5 minutes per skater X 30 skaters = 285 minutes = 4.75 hours. Still a real yawner for the audience.

Susan

decker said:

Actually it's 5 minutes warmup plus 4.5 minutes freeskate per skater, not times. That's 9.5 minutes per skater X 30 skaters = 285 minutes = 4.75 hours. Still a real yawner for the audience.

Susan

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Well, you still could shorten it from five minutes. Making it three minutes would cut an hour off the total time.

Having the groups warm up in groups - I have always thought is a great part of the THEATER of competitions... seeing who is warming up well... seeing who looks nervous... seeing who gives way (or doesn't) to who ...

It is a great way to build anticipation. Programs can come/go so quickly... it would make for a shallower 'emotional' experience for those attending live competitions, IMHO...

lcd said:

Having the groups warm up in groups - I have always thought is a great part of the THEATER of competitions... seeing who is warming up well... seeing who looks nervous... seeing who gives way (or doesn't) to who ...

It is a great way to build anticipation. Programs can come/go so quickly... it would make for a shallower 'emotional' experience for those attending live competitions, IMHO...

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I suppose you could keep the group warm-up, but make it slightly shorter so the skaters have an individual warm-up at some point. I know it isn't as viewer friendly to not have the group warm-up, but for some skaters, their positioning after the warm-up is so important. It would be interesting to see how they perform on an equal plane, all having the same amount of warm-up time at the same time before they start their programs. Maybe it would even drastically change results... but I guess we will never know unless we see it actually happen.

decker said:

Actually it's 5 minutes warmup plus 4.5 minutes freeskate per skater, not times. That's 9.5 minutes per skater X 30 skaters = 285 minutes = 4.75 hours. Still a real yawner for the audience.

Susan

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That's correct but given the Elimination Round which some posters believe may have 57 Ladies and more than 30 for the Men.

If you want only 30 skaters then you are eliminating others who qualify under the 1 skater per country guaranteed rule.

The elimination round is now the short program.

So 57 skaters at 2:50 per program plus 3 or 5 minutes of warmup per skater would still be a really long day, but not quite as long as with long programs.

The way things work now, there's the 6-minute warmup for each group of 6 skaters, and then after each skater there may be several minutes delay during which the technical panel reviews elements, during which time the next skater is free to warm up on the ice.

It's not a standard amount of time, though.

If the previous skater did everything very clearly so there's no question about levels or edges or full rotation of jumps, there may be no review and the next skater may get no extra warmup time beyond the time it takes to announce the previous skater's marks.

If the previous skater had shallow edges in the step sequence, borderline rotation on jumps, held spiral or spin positions/edges for just exactly or just under the minimum limits for them to count, and/or made weird mistakes in execution or in program construction that affect which elements would or would not count at all there may be many reviews or lengthy discussion, or if there's a technical malfunction of the video or computer system, there may also be a long delay, more than 3-5 minutes, before the it's time for the next skater.

You could build in extra time to guarantee at least 3 minutes for skaters in the previous situation, and for skaters who go first after the group warmup, but there wouldn't be a way to guarantee that there would never be a need for more than 3 or 5 minutes in the latter sort of situation.

gkelly - Is that official that the proposal to reinstall the elimination round was just a rumor?

And if 57 ladies (Worlds not Nats) are going to skate their SPs, it's still going to take quite a while, and with NBC pushing what they deem non essential competitors to skate their LPs at 6 am, and we all think that's fair