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Thread: Scary off-ice training

  1. #1
    Landing my axel..............again skatergirl45's Avatar
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    Scary off-ice training

    I have been seeing a lot of scary off ice training lately...
    Girls jumping rope on pavement with bare feet, skaters not stretching, pre teens doing WAY too advances workouts.

    I have also seen skaters jumping on 3 plus sessions a day.

    This leads to injury. Are people not getting it????

    Thoughts.............

  2. #2
    Sitting Here on Blue Jay Way silver.blades's Avatar
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    Alot of people, especially younger athletes, arn´t aware of the dangers of exessive or dangerous work out regements. Yes their parents and especially coaches should watch out for them or advise them but they cannot be watched 24/7. I still jump rope in barefeet when I´m doing it by myself even though it hurts everytime I catch my toes. Plus there are quite a few trainers and coaches who have no training and enjoy a sport, but don´t know what they are talking about and have no idea the dangers involved. There are also those who are living through their kids and push them harder to improve.
    It can take alot for an athlete to admit the cause of an injery as well. I twisted my landing knee awhile back and even though it hurt to jump I continued with doubles almost exclusivly for about 6 months after the fact becuse I figured it was nothing, in the end I couldn´t jump for 6 months I´d messed it up so bad.
    Adolesants, especially athletes, think they are invincable and tend to under play the severity of their injeries and push past their limit because they don´t know it.

  3. #3
    Tripping on the Podium
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    This is a hefty topic. My coach is constantly stressing proper body care. She says, "It's not a race to the finish." She strongly believes under 13 year old skaters should not compete above juvenile due to having a pre-teen body and growth patterns.

    She won't even let me do off-ice jumps unless I have my athletic shoes with my orthodics (I'm flat-footed). Except when doing my program, I am only allowed to do Biellmans on Tuesday or Thursday, due to back strain. I just started plyometrics, but I am only allowed to train 30 minutes once a week on a non-skating day.

    My coach often says, "what's the point of a gold medal if you have to get both hips replaced before age 30?"

  4. #4
    it's olympic season :D bethissoawesome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by princess-ice View Post
    This is a hefty topic. My coach is constantly stressing proper body care. She says, "It's not a race to the finish." She strongly believes under 13 year old skaters should not compete above juvenile due to having a pre-teen body and growth patterns.

    She won't even let me do off-ice jumps unless I have my athletic shoes with my orthodics (I'm flat-footed). Except when doing my program, I am only allowed to do Biellmans on Tuesday or Thursday, due to back strain. I just started plyometrics, but I am only allowed to train 30 minutes once a week on a non-skating day.

    My coach often says, "what's the point of a gold medal if you have to get both hips replaced before age 30?"
    It sounds like you have a really good coach. There are a lot of dangers when young kids train too hard. Sometimes coaches see talent and get greedy and just want to get as much out of the kid while they can and could care less if they are in constant pain after ending their skating career. And when you are young, you don't know your body as well. You aren't as familiar with the feelings of your body saying stop, or enough is enough. Having a coach with a good head on their shoulders and parents concerned that their kids are having a well-balanced life are what (in my opinion) saves young athletes, since the athletes themselves are sometimes too young to know what is the right course of action for them and are too afraid to stand up to a bad coach or "stage parent".

  5. #5
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    MORE IS NOT NECESSARILY BETTER. It can actually be counterproductive if all the activities lead to fatigue and injury. Some activities in themselves can be unnecessarily high risk for injury. Therefore, parents need to be very vigilant about what they're allowing their kids to do and how much.

    Apparently, a common long term damage that people may not be aware of is debilitating hip problems. When a skater reaches their 40s or 50s a lot of them require hip surgery, but I'm sure no kid or parent is thinking about those things.
    Last edited by passion; 07-25-2008 at 11:40 PM.

  6. #6
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Hip replacement surgery is not the end of the world, although I wonder whether you wouldn't be ill advised to do much jumping after it, Rudi Galindo and Alexei Yagudin to the contrary. My husband had his hip replaced, and it's just like his old hip. Everyone I know who has had their hip replaced is thrilled with the result and kicks themselves for not doing it sooner. You do have to follow the restrictions they give you for the first year.

    Other than expense and discomfort in rehab, there is no down side at all. No one should put off having a hip replaced if they need it.

    It's knees and, even more so, ankles, that worry me. Knee surgery is usually successful, but the rehab is very painful, and I have known people who weren't that happy with the results.

    With ankles, replacement surgery is not considered appropriate for younger patients and there are severe restrictions on what you can do afterward:

    http://orthopedics.about.com/od/foot...rthritis_3.htm

    Who is not a good candidate for ankle replacement surgery?
    Younger patients tend to be too active for current ankle replacement implants, and place too much of a demand on the ankle replacement prosthesis. Therefore, most patients under 50 years of age will have ankle fusion surgery. In patients over 50 years old, ankle fusion will still be offered to those who are more active and place more demands on the joint.
    In ankle fusion, they take the joint out and leave you with an unmovable joint.

  7. #7
    Rinkside
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    Interesting topic. I'm new and used to skate when i was younger. My coach didn't even let me go to dance classes more than twice a week and for only an hour each.

    Out of interest what would you suggest is an acceptable amount of off-ice training, could you suggest some activities? (I'm hoping to get some pupils from my school into skating so any advice would be great).

    Did i mention I'm new. Hi!

  8. #8
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Depends on the skater, their fitness level, age, etc. I am a competitive Adult Gold skater also working on Novice MIF. I skate ~ 7-10 hours a week and I do 1 hour of kickbox 1 day per week, run intervals 2-3 days per week + core work, lift weights 1 day per week, and stretch when I don't get obstinant.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by princess-ice View Post
    This is a hefty topic. My coach is constantly stressing proper body care. She says, "It's not a race to the finish." She strongly believes under 13 year old skaters should not compete above juvenile due to having a pre-teen body and growth patterns.

    She won't even let me do off-ice jumps unless I have my athletic shoes with my orthodics (I'm flat-footed). Except when doing my program, I am only allowed to do Biellmans on Tuesday or Thursday, due to back strain. I just started plyometrics, but I am only allowed to train 30 minutes once a week on a non-skating day.

    My coach often says, "what's the point of a gold medal if you have to get both hips replaced before age 30?"
    VERY smart coach!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Hip replacement surgery is not the end of the world.
    True, at least you get a second life on your hip. But still, there's the physical inconveniences and discomfort of a severely worn down hip, as well as the psychological/emotional sense of loss associated with losing your mobility. And if you live in Canada there's the endless wait for elective surgery to get your hip replaced. Then, of course, there's the recovery/ rehab period. None of it is easy. It is better to not have to go through all of that in the first place. I think the tone of your post made it sound that your hips are disposable... ah, screwed them up, get them done. I think athletes should really treat their hips like precious jewels and take care of themselves. Once you have them replaced they are like new for daily activity type of things, but don't expect to be able to do 180 degree Y spin or triple jumps.

    Certainly getting your hip(s) replaced when your in your 40's and even 50's is way too early. Most patients getting them done are overweight and over 60.
    Last edited by passion; 07-28-2008 at 11:37 PM.

  11. #11
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by passion View Post
    True, at least you get a second life on your hip. But still, there's the physical inconveniences and discomfort of a severely worn down hip, as well as the psychological/emotional sense of loss associated with losing your mobility. And if you live in Canada there's the endless wait for elective surgery to get your hip replaced. Then, of course, there's the recovery/ rehab period. None of it is easy. It is better to not have to go through all of that in the first place. I think the tone of your post made it sound that your hips are disposable... ah, screwed them up, get them done. I think athletes should really treat their hips like precious jewels and take care of themselves. Once you have them replaced they are like new for daily activity type of things, but don't expect to be able to do 180 degree Y spin or triple jumps.

    Certainly getting your hip(s) replaced when your in your 40's and even 50's is way too early. Most patients getting them done are overweight and over 60.
    You are absolutely 100% right that the best thing to do (athlete or nonathlete) is take care of your body, your hips included.

    However, your assertion that there is a correct age for hip replacement is 100% wrong. The question is not how old you are, it's how deteriorated your hip is. What you are doing by asking people whose hips have deteriorated to the point of needing replacement to wait till their 60's is, de facto, condemning them to a life of constant pain, where they can neither sit, stand or sleep in comfort, and will progressively become more and more unable to walk.

    The people I have known who have needed hip replacement all say, "Why did I put this off?" If you need the surgery, you should have it done. Don't put it off.

    Your orthopedic surgeon will not do hip surgery if you do not need it. Furthermore, in some conditions, such as avascular necrosis of the hip, if caught early, there are some methods to encourage the bone to heal. (My husband had AVN--caught late-due to trauma.)

    I was not saying that hips are disposable. However, it is worth knowing that 85% of hip replacements last over 20 years, and that though more complex than the first surgery, a worn out hip replacement can be replaced itself.

    http://www.webmd.com/osteoarthritis/...surgery?page=3

    As to whether it is mostly fat people that get replacements, the little folder when my husband had his surgery said you must be under 300 pounds or your doctor will not do a hip replacement, so certainly it is not the most obese getting hip replacements. People needing hip replacement tend to be inactive, and inactive people may be fatter than they would be if they could exercise. I have known 5 hip replacement people, 3 thin, 2 fat. Both of the fat people lost significant weight once they had their mobility back due to the replacement.

    As to the wait for hip surgery in Canada, I have heard that is true, but I wonder whether it varies from province to province?

    In fact, that one fact alone is key in the Republican ads against universal health care in the US--the people coming to the US for surgery they can't get in Canada are very often hip replacement people.

    Finally, the rehab for hip surgery is not pleasant, but it is not bad. In all 5 cases I know of, the pain of rehab was significantly less than the pain they had before the surgery.

  12. #12
    Landing my axel..............again skatergirl45's Avatar
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    I think for a pre-pre to pre-juv skater, 6 hours on the ice per week and about 2 hours of hard off ice training, stretch every day, push-ups, core work on alternate days. I also run 4 days a week. This is about the max someone under 14 should be doing in my opinion.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    You are absolutely 100% right that the best thing to do (athlete or nonathlete) is take care of your body, your hips included.

    However, your assertion that there is a correct age for hip replacement is 100% wrong. The question is not how old you are, it's how deteriorated your hip is. What you are doing by asking people whose hips have deteriorated to the point of needing replacement to wait till their 60's is, de facto, condemning them to a life of constant pain, where they can neither sit, stand or sleep in comfort, and will progressively become more and more unable to walk.

    The people I have known who have needed hip replacement all say, "Why did I put this off?" If you need the surgery, you should have it done. Don't put it off.

    Your orthopedic surgeon will not do hip surgery if you do not need it. Furthermore, in some conditions, such as avascular necrosis of the hip, if caught early, there are some methods to encourage the bone to heal. (My husband had AVN--caught late-due to trauma.)

    I was not saying that hips are disposable. However, it is worth knowing that 85% of hip replacements last over 20 years, and that though more complex than the first surgery, a worn out hip replacement can be replaced itself.

    http://www.webmd.com/osteoarthritis/...surgery?page=3

    As to whether it is mostly fat people that get replacements, the little folder when my husband had his surgery said you must be under 300 pounds or your doctor will not do a hip replacement, so certainly it is not the most obese getting hip replacements. People needing hip replacement tend to be inactive, and inactive people may be fatter than they would be if they could exercise. I have known 5 hip replacement people, 3 thin, 2 fat. Both of the fat people lost significant weight once they had their mobility back due to the replacement.

    As to the wait for hip surgery in Canada, I have heard that is true, but I wonder whether it varies from province to province?

    In fact, that one fact alone is key in the Republican ads against universal health care in the US--the people coming to the US for surgery they can't get in Canada are very often hip replacement people.

    Finally, the rehab for hip surgery is not pleasant, but it is not bad. In all 5 cases I know of, the pain of rehab was significantly less than the pain they had before the surgery.
    To be clear, I'm not saying that there is a correct age for hip replacement. In other words, I'm not saying that people should put off surgery until they've reached the sixty year old mark if indeed they require it sooner. My point is that to require surgery in your forties or fifties (or even younger) means that the hip is deteriorating too soon! ie. too much wear and tear on the hip. Exactly as you said, it's not about age, it's about hip deterioration. Tara Lipinski is a prime example. What I am saying refering to the sixty year olds is this: that from my personal experience working in orthopaedic surgery the majority of patients are in that age category.

    Although you may know three thin people out of five who've had replacements, I have seen at least a couple hundred patients getting hip and knee replacements and the majority are indeed overweight (though I never did say obese), hence adding to the daily wear and tear of their weight bearing joints. Not all patients are inactive, but for the ones who have lived an inactive lifestyle for many years it's a bit of a cycle because the person may start with extra weight, get osteoarthritis, further decreasing their mobility and making them even more inactive, causing them to gain even more weight, putting even more stress on the already worn down joint. Being in the hospital can be a good time to talk about lifestyle changes with a patient. Having regained mobility due to a new replacement and good rehab afterwards can get that cycle going in a positive way (since mobility and inactivity are interrelated), so I'm not surprised that the people you know lost significant weight.

    Anyhow, this is all besides the bigger point since inactivity due to being overweight is probably a non-issue for skaters. My biggest concern that I wanted to bring up in the last post is that I really hope skaters take care of themselves and value their original joints. I just don't want them to get into this mindset that if I screw up my hip I can always get another one and then a second one; therefore, I can do whatever to my hip now to gain short term.

  14. #14
    Rinkside
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    I think you must balance the high impact activities with some low impact activities like swimming and cycling, too much running will give your knees a hard time and cause premature wear to joints.

    Skaters get enough high impact stuff during on ice training so swap some of the running for more low impact stuff.

  15. #15
    Tripping on the Podium skates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatergirl45 View Post
    I have been seeing a lot of scary off ice training lately...
    Girls jumping rope on pavement with bare feet,
    I used to jump rope every day on my brick patio at home, without shoes when i was younger.Nothing has happened to me.

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