Norlite said:It is very difficult to watch, and evaluate at the same time. Judges use practices, to study a program, note where (they actually take notes) particular attention should be given during the actual competition (I.E. "don't have my head down writing after the triple lutz because a very difficult footwork sequence is next") and where there is just "filler" which would be a great time to jot down a couple notes.
Joesitz said:I'm sure you are thinking ideal situations but do they exist?
Joe
Joesitz said:Skater A is at practice and does a triple combo and it was noted by the watching judge. In the Long Program that night Skater A does a triple lutz and then either a popped up single toe or skipped the entire second part of the combo.
That judged who watched the practice, and madea note of the triple combo, will consider this a grave error (unless, of course, he is a fan of the skater). Subjectively, he will not think that no error was committed. It was not that way at practice!
Norlite said:Even if for some reason they are not at the practice, now under COP, they will all been given a list of elements for each skater's program anyway, so they are going to know that the combo was missed. Plus, even now, without GOP, most federations hand out lists of their skaters elements in programs. It is not meant to be a secret.
Joesitz said:You are a stickler for the rules My feeling of keeping the judges away from practice is simply I believe they should know what they see at the competition. That's their job.
Well, I do believe all involved in competition in any sport should definately follow the rules. Geez, not following the rules would be cheating.
And their job description, like I said, does include attending practices.
Now tell me, once they know that the combo was missed, what does the judge do? Mark the skater down even though the Free Skate by definition is to be judged at what happens that night and only what happens that night. Not what was supposed to happen because of a list or what was seen at practice.
There is no mandatory deduction for a missed element in the freeskate.
There is no credit given for a missed element in the freeskate.
Hopefully, the judge would count it as a missed element and give no credit. Because if they counted it as an isolated triple lutz, chances are they would receive a deduction under the Zayak rule, since they would have already had a lutz in their program.
Joesitz said:So there is no room for discussion here. It's follow the rules and don't think.
I haven't the foggiest clue what you are talking about here. I'm talking about actual competition. Or to use one of your words, a "contest"
What happens when you enter a contest and don't follow the rules?? I think you are usually disqualified.
And I would think following the rules requires more thinking than not.
I'm sure we all know that.
Then why did you ask if the skater should be marked down??
So what's the point of watching practice or getting a list?
Because the list looks like:
3Lutz
Spiral sequence
3 Loop
Combo spin
2 Axel
circular footwork
3 Flip- 2 toe
and on and on..........how would that let me know what to pay particular attention to for each skater?? Judging requires lots and lots of marking during the actual competition. And then very few minutes to rank that skaters out of, say 30, before the next one is on the ice ready to start. So, back to the topic of this poll, while the marks are given for how the program is skated during the actual competition, it is important that each judge familiarize with each skater beforehand, during the official practice, to make sure they know specifics to watch for, for that particular skater.
BTW, thats why it is called "official "practices. Skaters and coaches choose to attend these for the purpose of giving the judges the chance to watch. And they hope they do.
It seems from what you say, one may not discuss any changes in rules. Am I correct?
I haven't a clue what this means. Changes are made at every AGM of every governing body every year. In fact, for the month or so ahead, we submit recommendations for rule changes, for both competitive and test stream skating. Some years many are adopted, some years few. And in turn the GB's submit to the ISU. But, I can assure you, there will never be a rule banning judges from practices, because, in the competitive skating world, it is welcomed, wanted, and needed by the skaters, coaches, and judges.