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Thread: Michelle and that elusive 3/3

  1. #46
    Salchows and Shimmies!!!
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    Joe:

    ITA!!!!!

    Yaz

  2. #47
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Rgirl, Welcome back and congratulations on the new computer.
    The only thing I would project about Michelle is that you can never leave her out of your calculations. And I too hope that she takes her skating further in the direction that it went this year, especially in TFB!

    Her triple lutz near the end of the program is now gorgeous and a true lutz with great height. I can see her being able to stick a 3 toe on the end of it if she wants one, and keeps up with the off ice training that made it possible. Who says you can't get rid of a flutz at an older age!

    dpp

  3. #48
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    She has to do 3/3 otherwise she will have no chance for the gold medal in Turino and I think that will be her big big goal.

    Alina

  4. #49
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Alina - Michelle can do a three three, that's not the problem, but if you were a skater and you a choice of saving your hips or doing a 3/3. What would you decide?

    Joe

  5. #50
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    As much as I would like to think Michelle with a true lutz now, it still remains a flutz. I think the only way she (or any flutzer) could ever have it corrected is to relearn the take off technique. It's all about muscle memory.

  6. #51
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    Joe- that´s a difficult question. How much would a sportsman/-woman do to reach their goals? Sometimes they are very unreasonable and I know many athlets who after finishing their careers have many physical problems.
    My opinion: because others catched the golden medals at olympics 1998 and 2002 Michelle want to reach this golden medal, which she missed, in Turino. And for this goal she will take the risk perhaps not this year but the next. She cannot win in Turino without the 3/3 because the younger skaters like Sasha, Karolina, the russians and the japanes will improve and be more constant till then (2 years!).
    You asked me:what would you decide? For me I would decide saving my hips, as trainer I would say: save your hips, but I am not in this situation and then it is very easy to decide reasonable.
    Alina

  7. #52
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    And for this goal she will take the risk perhaps not this year but the next. She cannot win in Turino without the 3/3 because the younger skaters like Sasha, Karolina, the russians and the japanes will improve and be more constant till then (2 years!).
    I agree completely with this analysis. But I think that Michelle could wait even until the 2005-2006 season to train her three-threes seriously.

    The remaining question is whether Michelle really cares that much about pursuing the gold medal in Torino, or whether she will have developed competing interests in the meantime. I don't think that even Michelle herself knows the answer to that question yet. (But she might stay in the mix for three more years to see if she can match Sonia Henie's all-time record of 11 World medals.)

    Mathman

  8. #53
    Da' Spellin' Homegirl Grgranny's Avatar
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    Whoever would have thought 2 years ago that Rgirl would be praising Michelle?
    I have very stupid question. What is an iBook?

  9. #54
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Alina - I understand your rationale and I could agree with it, but Michelle, is something else. I've been watching her since 1994 and I have always found her mysterious. Most of her serious fans know she can do a 3/3 toe, but will she do it in competition? Her serious fans do not know anymore than her non-fans and her non-fans are a sizeable bunch.

    The technical mark of the scoring is definitely geared to 3/3s. This is good for MK if she shows them. She's an adequate spinner but not exceptional. In fact MK is not exceptional in any one element, imo. But she flows over that ice like no one else and then we come to the other score, of Presentation.

    With the exception of Yokina Ota, who does 3/3s very easily and combines it with gorgeous flow and presentation, Mk will definitely be podium bound. Yokina is the one to watch for gold. The Russian Ladies with all that build up of how balletic they are, is just not true. The Russian Ladies in Pairs, are defenitely better trained in ballet than their single skaters, again, imo.

    Alina, I would suggest you check out the Campbells. It is something I am going to do. Don't look for a winner. Look for all around potential. If you center on 3/3s then, imo, you will be missing much of figure skating. You may realize that a skater without a 3/3 could win Torino. Let's watch!

    Joe

  10. #55
    Master Procrastinator
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    Originally posted by shine
    As much as I would like to think Michelle with a true lutz now, it still remains a flutz. I think the only way she (or any flutzer) could ever have it corrected is to relearn the take off technique. It's all about muscle memory.
    I guess it doesn't matter how many experts (judges and former skaters) have gone on record in the past two years (especially last season) and stated that Michelle does not flutz. People are going to believe what they want no matter what.

  11. #56
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Lucy -= When a fan has another favorite skater in mind, all the fan sees are imaginary flaws in the competition. It's called nitpicking.

    There were fans who (didn't like Sarah) thought Sarah underrotated jumps. I never saw that on TV. At DC Worlds, I didn't see it in practice nor in competition. But hey, those same people who see the underrotation will stand by their beliefs.

    They have a right to say what they believe. You have a right to note who is saying those things.

    Joe

  12. #57
    Master Procrastinator
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    Joesitz - Agreed.

  13. #58
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    To me, it seems like, since the 1998 injury, Michelle's had some hesitation with the 3toe in general. Even 3t-2t combos have been a little shaky in competition. However, I don't think I've seen Michelle miss a 3sal since, I dunno, 1994? If I was Michelle, I'd try a 3sal as part of a 3-3 combo, since she seems to own that jump. A 3sal-3loop or 3sal-3toe might be a little easier since she comes out of the 3sal with so much speed.

    I do think she always has Tara's 3-3 prowess AND injuries in the back of her mind when she's practicing those. When she needs a 3-3, she'll try a 3-3. She always has. If she doesn't think she needs one, she'll pass (and usually ends up fine).

    I do think assuming the other jumping beans will automatically get more consistent in time might not be accurate. It's hard to say where anyone will be injury-wise and growthspurt-wise in 3 years.

  14. #59
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    Every year we talk about Michelle's needing the 3/3 to win Olympic and/or World gold. Frankly, she doesn't need it to win Worlds because no one else has landed them consistently there either. On all other fronts (e.g. presentation, technical), Michelle has usually been the clear winner. Unfortunately, when the stakes have been higher--at the Olympic Games--someone (Tara, Sarah) HAS upped the ante and pulled off two 3/3s or one 3/ 1/2 / 3 plus a 3/3 and skated off with the gold. Michelle's lack of a 3/3 cost her both opportunities for the gold. My guess is that Turin will be the same.
    Last edited by RealtorGal; 09-01-2003 at 10:20 AM.

  15. #60
    Custom Woman
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    Joe,
    There's the rub. OGM or chronically injured hip. As Mathman said, she could wait to practice the 3/3 until 2005, or as I said, with her strong new bod and off-ice training going into its second year, perhaps training a 3/3 won't cause so much pain. But not matter how strong and well-trained you are, it's hard to get around the laws of Mr. Newton. Some bodies have a tougher time with 3/3s than others, plus Michelle has been doing seven-triple programs for 7-8 years in competition--consistently--and that alone is tough on the landing hip.

    Originally posted by alina
    JShe cannot win in Turino without the 3/3 because the younger skaters like Sasha, Karolina, the russians and the japanes will improve and be more constant till then (2 years!).
    I didn't quote your whole post, which I think makes great points. But the other side of the coin is that Sasha, Karolina, the Russians and Japanese may become more consistent and have 3/3s, but they may also become injured. Take Yoshie Onda. She was jumping great guns this last season and then right before the GPF, serious injury. It's a dangerous choice.

    0T0h, Realtorgal points out that Michelle got beat in '98 and '02 by ladies with mighty 3/3 combinations. It seems logical that history will repeat itself, but Tara and Sarah's hips weren't so beat up by hip injuries at the time of their Olympics. And Michelle was not as good an overall skater. I thought her greatest asset prior to '03 was her consistency. Now I think Michelle's greatest asset is everything, except the 3/3; that's how far ahead I think she is of everyone else. Ota is a vision, but I saw her Jr. Worlds LP and she's got many, many years to go in order to reach Michelle's level of capability, IMO.

    Grgranny -- I call it as I see it. Michelle was short on a lot of things, as I saw it, up until '03 Nats and Worlds. For various reasons and with the right help, I felt she pulled herself up to a whole new level technically and performance-wise. When I saw it, I was thrilled and said so. I love Martin Scorsese's movies, but if he makes a clunker, I say it's a clunker.

    BTW, an iBook is an Apple MacIntosh version of a laptop. Very cool. I can watch DVDs on it!
    Rgirl

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