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Thread: The gymnastics thread

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    The gymnastics thread

    It looks like gymnastics is taking the same approach to scoring as figure skating. It doesn't matter if you fall on your back on the dismount, fall off the balance beam or the uneven bars, or land out of bounds on the floor exercise -- as long as your routine has a lot of difficulty you will get a big score.

    Bela Kaorolyi was just interviewed by Bob Costas and he said that the new scoring system was just a smoke screen to cover up cheating and bias on the part of the judges.
    Last edited by Mathman; 08-11-2008 at 01:51 PM.

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    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    it's just like skating, the old regime isn't going to like it, the new probably will

    but everyone is going to have to get used to it like it or not.

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    I don't really know much about gymnastics, although I heard the commentator said the code of points has been critisized for decreasing the amount of artistry. (Although I'm not sure what artistry is or what it looks like in gymnastics). So if someone who knows about gymnastics can also explain that to me.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    It was kind of an eye-opener to me. I saw scores like 14.86 appear on the screen and I had no notion of what any of it meant. The commentators were not really helpful.

    Yes, I could devote a few hundred hours to learning the scoring system, as I have in the case of figure skating. But I am not going to. Instead, I will just gradually lose interest in a sport that I found quite exciting back in the days when Olga Korbet and Nadia Commanici were going for a perfect ten.

    I think that for both sports the new scoring systems are fine for the athletes and enthusiasts, bad for casual veiwers. When the audience can't tell who performed well and who performed poorly until the protocols come out, this just kills the whole notion of a spectator sport.

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    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    according to teh commentators you can still go for the perfect 10... but just in half the score...

    With gymnastics it's a little easier, I think, because you can tell when a girl steps out, falls, or loses her balance... or when she just isn't doing as much difficulty

    with figure skating you have SO MUCH in the way of moves in the field and "artistry" that it is much more subjective... at least that's my casual viewer of both (I can't tell you have of what skaters are doing or being judged on, much less how it works, so I guess I cound as the casual viewer IN THIS CASE) look at the sport

    ETA - article addressing this very thing
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 08-11-2008 at 02:28 AM.

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    Custom Title IDLERACER's Avatar
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    Was anybody watching this evening when somebody asked Tim Dagget about what type of vaults the women will be performing? His answer was:

    "Alicia Sacramone has two huge ones."

    You can bet that within the next few hours, that's gonna be all over YouTube!

    :chorus: :chorus: :chorus:

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    Sestriere 1999 ChrisH's Avatar
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    Well, they should definitely deduct more points for falling off the apparatus or for landing on your butt during the dismount. Degree of difficulty seemed to heavily outweigh cleanliness.

    I don't mind the splitting up of the scores. A lot of the judged sports have some degree of difficulty score and some execution score. They just need to posts the scores, like they do with diving. Secret judging is so off-putting in a sports event.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I liked that they left the option of a perfect score in the equivalent of the PCS--I think NBC should highlight that score a little better for the casual viewer, though, since that's the easiest thing to relate to.

    I like that they show the scheduled difficulty mark because that's how it's easy to know who is doing something really difficult and who is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisH View Post
    Well, they should definitely deduct more points for falling off the apparatus or for landing on your butt during the dismount. Degree of difficulty seemed to heavily outweigh cleanliness.

    I don't mind the splitting up of the scores. A lot of the judged sports have some degree of difficulty score and some execution score. They just need to posts the scores, like they do with diving. Secret judging is so off-putting in a sports event.
    A fall is .8 deduction (Im pretty sure) In gymnastics that is a huge hit depending on what the start value was. Thank goodness nastia had a rediculous start value for bars.?17 The rest of her routine was so perfect she was able to make the final. I have never seen her fall on her dismount in competition. She even has "artistry" on bars. Check out her perfectly straight body and her toes.

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    i didn't see it. but we shouldn't complain about ages. after all tara was (grandfathered in by being too young). all the youngsters we have. we just take it for granted their that age . but do we really know especially for other countries outside us, maybe even canada. just fudging by a few months makes a difference in whether the athelete is elligible or not. figures skating by 1st of july, who knows back in the past--they wasn't officially age elligible so they fudge by a few months to make them elligible. only we didn't know it. they didn't cover it. i find it interesting nytimes did it about Chinese(asian) and no other country. maybe the others covered it better that is all. i find it interesting that it is okay for the US to cheat but not other countries. well that is the ny times and us for you. do as we say not as we do. US will do whatever it takes to win -even cheat. you end justifies means.
    also with all the supposed injuries the us girls have, they can be (juiced) take coritizone shots and be legitate to help the chances at gold for a team medal.
    it is okay as long as the federation, ioc, head of gymastics knows about it ahead of time. so let the Cheating begins.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairly4 View Post
    also with all the supposed injuries the us girls have, they can be (juiced) take coritizone shots and be legitate to help the chances at gold for a team medal.
    it is okay as long as the federation, ioc, head of gymastics knows about it ahead of time. so let the Cheating begins.
    This seems highly unlikely.

    For one thing, if US gymnasts were cheating-i.e. feigning injuries to get cortisone shots-.you would have seen Peshek and Memmel competing in all their usual event in the qualifying round. In fact, they only both competed on the uneven bars--if they were doing it for advantage, I would at least expect to see Memmel on vault and one or the other of them on beam and floor so that the worst score could be dropped.

    Not to say that a US athlete or team has never cheated, but this is a truly bad example and borders on the libelous.

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    The Zamboni Rocks!!! sillylionlove's Avatar
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    If you read the article of the interview...he didn't just point out China. It said that it has been well know in Romania, Russia, China and some other countries, that they falsify documents to change the age. He said that they had the ability to do so and often did so. Remember, he did coach Romania way back when.

    Here are some quotes from the article which can be found on nbcolympics.com

    Karolyi is originally from Romania, and he says falsifying documents is a common practice in totalitarian regimes such as Romania, Russia and other former Soviet bloc nations.....

    What kind of slap in the face is this?" he asked. "They are 12, 14 years old, max. And they line them up for the world ... and having the government back them. .....

    "Since they forced an age limit, it has gotten worse and worse. The FIG is running away from the age problem. They set an age limit and now they can't control it." .....

    The solution, he said, is to not have any age limit. He believes if a gymnast is good enough to earn a spot at the Olympics or world championships, that athlete deserves to go. He said some juniors today are just as proficient as the age-eligble competitors. Nastia Liukin, for example, would certainly have made the squad for the Athens Games four years ago had she not been 14.....

    It was very interesting and I suggest that if you get a chance to read it. He was also on television talking about this...I think it was during primetime lineup of the Olympics with Bob Costas the other night. I think that many sports are struggling with this same type of issue right now. Children train earlier and harder now then they ever did before in sports.I think that this will be an issue for a long time to come.
    Last edited by sillylionlove; 08-12-2008 at 01:44 PM.

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    The Zamboni Rocks!!! sillylionlove's Avatar
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    OOPS....Congrats to the men for winning the bronze medal in the team competition last night. They really rocked it. No one expected them to do that well.

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    The gymnastics thread

    Because I realized we didn't have one and this board feels naked without one.

    Also because I've been watching some videos on YouTube. The highlights:

    Aurelia Dobre 1988 Olympic Floor Exercise

    Svetlana Boginskaya 1988 Olympic Floor Exercise to Carmen

    Daniela Silivas 1988 Olympic Floor Exercise to Mozart

    Bi WenJing 1996 Olympic Uneven Bars Event Final
    (She does a Gaylord and it's pretty cool.)

    The bar routines in the 70s and 80s were pretty damn amazing and, dare I say, look much more difficult than the routines of the past twenty years or so (because the bars are farther apart now).

    Nadia Comaneci 1980 Olympic Uneven Bars

    Olga Korbut 1976 Olympic Uneven Bars

    Teodora Ungureanu 1976 Olympic Uneven Bars

    I'd also post the links to the videos at shanfan.com, but there are too many. Just go there and search. Smile

    http://static.photo.net/attachments/...-108825784.jpg
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-30-2009 at 05:18 PM. Reason: change img to url

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