The gymnastics thread | Page 3 | Golden Skate

The gymnastics thread

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I have no idea if there is cheating by the judges but I think they keep the names of the judges hidden. Why? :frown:

As far as the Ladies are concerned, Russia should have won that competition for keeping with the music and with dance steps. The Americans were ok, but the Chinese ignored the music.

Overall, I was not overwhelmed with the Men's Division in Gymnastics. But so much more for Swimming with or without Phelps.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
...Isn't sports illustrated a halfway serious magazine? Because I expect to read that kind of thing in the cheapest of tabloids.
Actually, I think that's exactly right -- Sports Illustrated is a "halfway serious" magazine. I think they do try to be factual but also they try to write in an "edgy" style to attract readers.

About the "home ice" advantage, I do think there is something to that. In the first place, judges are human. They get caught up in the emotions of the moment like everyone else.

Plus, in so far as sports falls into the category of "recreation-entertainment" (and what else would it be? Agriculture? Rails and Transportation?), the bottom line is "satisfy the customer." Every sports team has a better record at-home than away.

BTW, another thing that appeared to rattle the U.S. lady gynmasts was the long delays between when tey stepped up to the apparatus andwhen they were permitted to start their routine. As I understand it, this was to accommodate the Chinese television networks who wanted to interview the Chinese girls between events and still show the Americans live.
 

dutchherder

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
I remember Al Troutwig saying something about the floor exercise surface being less springy than what the American gymnasts were accustomed to. Perhaps the gymnasts were attempting to overcompensate for that popped out of bounds?
 

sillylionlove

Medalist
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
The equiptment that the use in international competitions overseas is made by a european company and in the US they use equiptment made by an American Company called AMC(I think) The european equiptment can be different which is why they have "podium traning". This is so the gymnasts can get used to the equiptment because it can be different. Many of the North American gymnasts did complain about how different the equiptment was but who knows if that was the real reason.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The equiptment that the use in international competitions overseas is made by a european company and in the US they use equiptment made by an American Company called AMC(I think) The european equiptment can be different which is why they have "podium traning". This is so the gymnasts can get used to the equiptment because it can be different. Many of the North American gymnasts did complain about how different the equiptment was but who knows if that was the real reason.
That's very interesting. In figure skating, European skaters mostly train on Olympic sized rinks and on harder ice. American rinks are mostly hockey size, and I have heard that the ice is typically softer. So there is definitely an adjustment that the skaters have to make when they travel.
Dutchherder said:
I remember Al Troutwig saying something about the floor exercise surface being less springy than what the American gymnasts were accustomed to. Perhaps the gymnasts were attempting to overcompensate for that popped out of bounds?
Now that I think about it, it could be the other way around. Maybe a springier surface makes you bounce up more, while on a harder surface you go farther laterally.
 
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mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Hockey ice is typically harder (~17 degrees) versus actual figure skating ice (23-25 degrees).
 

silver.blades

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Country
Canada
Going from hard ice to soft ice dosn't cause many problems anyways, because soft ice is easier to skate on. The other way however can be problematic.
 

Ginask8s

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Silver is no small deal. IMO, the American girls would have to have been 100% al the way through and the Chinese would've had to make serious errors-every one of them- to win the gold. Not to take away from what the Americans did because they were absolutely amazing, even with the mistakes. And my heart goes out to Alicia Sacramone, as I hear she's totally blaming herself.

Now I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories, but I heard an interesting one today. All three of the American girls (even Shawn Johnson, who never goes OOB) went OOB as did most of the other teams. IIRC, none of the Chinese did-although I may be wrong on that. One of my friends was watching last night and said he almost thought the floor (in bounds space at least) was not as big as most other floors (that the OOB space was bigger- I'm sorry if I'm not making sense lol). And as the Chinese have trained on that floor, they know exactly where to place themselves.
I'm not saying I believe it or not but it's a very good theory (and this same person has a theory on all the records being broken in swimming). And I mean, Shawn Johnson stepping OOB? It just doesn't happen.

I agree with your first statement. The Americans would have had to be perfect and get generous scores to have beaten the chinese. The judges were tuff on our girls. Nastia should have gotten a 17 on bars. Shawn was perfect on beam. Alicia had a really bad beginning on beam. The rest looked solid . A silver is awesome, but Alicia will have to deal with her olympic experience being a bit of a personal dissapointment. I hope she rocks vault in event finals. The press was shameful in the post event interview. She handled herself very well.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
The NY Times blamed this for the lovely and graceful Russian gymnast Svetlana Khorkina for not medalling in the all around.
It was also a good illustration on how disastrous it is for an athlete to lose focus. In a recent interview, Khokhlova sited this very example to illustrate that point. By the time the judges let Svetlana redo the vault, it was too late, as she had already botched the rest of the apparatus.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Congrats to Nastia Lupin for her gold medal in the all around events! :clap::clap::bow::bow:

She was my favorite and I am so happy for her and her family!

Also, congrats to Shawn for more great routines and a well-deserved silver. good job girls!
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Besides being beautiful, Nastia Liukin is one heck of a competitor. She was so focused. I don't follow gymnastics outside the Olympics so I didn't know her, and honestly didn't know whether she ever smiled. During the competition I thought she was the most icy, somber, inward-looking gymnast I ever saw. But all those perfect landings... my goodness. And after she won, she sure smiled! Very, very impressive.

Shawn Johnson was great too but you could see the Olympic nerves.

Michelle Malkin has a piece today proposing that the Chinese women are not even in the double digits (in years). That's how it looks to me too. I can't believe they are getting away with it. http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTIzZTEyNjk5NDNmZDExYTE2Y2VkNDQ1MTJhNDk3ZjE=
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
She makes some good points, but other points are, frankly, ridiculous, For instance, the point about missing teeth - well, I lost my last baby tooth at the age of 30, so I can certainly believe a 16-y.o. would, too. Oh, and "There’s no such thing as a bureaucratic error in an authoritarian regime" - trust me, that is not the case!
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I had to have my final baby teeth pulled at age 20, so the baby teeth thing doesn't really fly.

and not all of the girls look underage, I only remember seeing two that really stood out...
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
It is hard to take anything that Michelle Malkin says seriously, once she gets cranked up about Communists, pinkos and liberals. Anyway, to me even worse for the sport of gymnastics than the age thing was the judging. The Russian girl (named "Anna Pavlova!" :rock:) should have got the bronze. Especially atrocious was the Chinese girl's high score for her shaky, error-filled routine on the balance beam.

Meanwhile Shawn Johnson's beam routine was undermarked, as was Nastia Liukin on the uneven bars. (JMO.)
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
You know, one thing I noticed watching gymnastics was that I enjoy it the way I used to enjoy figure skating before I became a fan. I can just watch it without looking for those tiny details, without questioning the judges, without getting furious with the commentators - I can just enjoy the show.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
You know, one thing I noticed watching gymnastics was that I enjoy it the way I used to enjoy figure skating before I became a fan. I can just watch it without looking for those tiny details, without questioning the judges, without getting furious with the commentators - I can just enjoy the show.
And even more so under the old judging system.

It was really cool back then to see Nadia Comeneci flipping around doing her thing, and then see a pefect 10 jump up on the scoreboard. Or rooting for Mary Lou Retten to wow us by sticking that vault to win the whole shebang.

But with these games, you see a girl teeter and totter on the beam, with many balance checks and gaps between elements, and then you see 13.29 go up, whatever that means. Well, OK.
 

gocaroline

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
age controversial

In a documentary made in 2003 about China's preparation for 2008 Olympics (Dream Weaver Beijing2008), Deng linlin and Jiang Yuyuan, among others, were filmed entered chinese gymnastic national team at 2003 at age 11 and 12.

So, how old are they in 2008?

BTW, Bela and Martha are too sour-grape this time:rolleye:

the youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUGx-...eature=related
 

delray1977

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
It is hard to take anything that Michelle Malkin says seriously, once she gets cranked up about Communists, pinkos and liberals. Anyway, to me even worse for the sport of gymnastics than the age thing was the judging. The Russian girl (named "Anna Pavlova!" :rock:) should have got the bronze. Especially atrocious was the Chinese girl's high score for her shaky, error-filled routine on the balance beam.

Meanwhile Shawn Johnson's beam routine was undermarked, as was Nastia Liukin on the uneven bars. (JMO.)

Oh please, Michelle Malkin. :rolleye: Her retoric tends to grate on my nerves. The fact that she uses such an offensive term like ChiCom through out the article just kills her credibility here. My advice to Malkin, Bella and Martha and anyone else: just let like it go, our team was obviously not at their best that night. winning the silver metal is nothing to be upset about. We should be proud of our team, they did the best they could. Actually Pavlova was very good but I thought it was Semonova who should have won the bronze, yes, I agree that the chinese were overscored on the beam. The score that Liukin recieved on her vault was atrocious.
 

chacha

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
I had to have my final baby teeth pulled at age 20, so the baby teeth thing doesn't really fly.

and not all of the girls look underage, I only remember seeing two that really stood out...

The better way to verify the age is x-ray for bone age. I'm not sure why they didn't consider that to get over this issue.
 
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