The German Federation did a skate-off this year to determine the two places on the Men's team.Originally posted by Mathman
Other skating federations, especially in Europe, I believe do take into account the entire season, sometimes even having a "skate-off" between the leading contenders.
Mathman
I agree with the assessment that the U.S. national judges are trying to select the strongest World TEAM in judging nationals. Sasha was the lone U.S. force on the GP circuit this year, winning all her events but one (but winning a silver there), including the GP finals. As such, judges know that Sasha is respected, if not favored by intl. judges.
On the other hand, AP embarrassed herself and the U.S. with that ridiculous visa debacle. No matter which way you slice it, it was ultimately her responsibility to ensure proper documentation. She not only cost herself a medal, she cost the U.S. a second spot at Cup of Russia. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor in the judging at nats.
Tru...AP should have placed higher in the LP at Nationals, BUT I think she should have been placed uch lower in the SP.
Oh, I hope not. I was satisfied with Sasha's placement over Ann Patrice on the basis of her performance, although AP skated very well, too.I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor in the judging at nats.Welcome to Golden Skate, Kemy. But watch out -- some one will say that ice cream has sloppy edges."I like ice cream" -- Kemy
Mathman
The thing is they could have placed AP over sasha, and still named sasha to the world team. This is the exact thing that's wrong with figure skating. AP losing her visa shouldn't matter at all, what happens on the ice should matter! We all sit here and whine about the judging, but when someone you likes gets held up it's ok?I much prefer sasha's skating to AP's but I'm not going to sit here and pretend it's ok to hold someone up. I don't care what Sasha has done to "prove herself" in the past. Fact is she didn't prove herself when it mattered most, at nationals or at worlds.
Smiley - I'm impressed with your power of conviction. Not many fans of a skater would say such things. Cheers!
Joe
Yet, sometimes judges do not play the "Wait your turn" game and they award skaters appropriately for what they actually do the night of competition. How refreshing!
Take the 1997 US Nationals, for instance. Michelle Kwan was the defending US and World champion, and she was fast becoming one of the most beloved of all US figure skaters. Yet, she had a meltdown during her long program - fell twice, and missed a third jump. The marks were perhaps a bit high, considering her mistakes (at least the presentation marks were quite high) but the technical marks accurately reflected her mistakes - 5.3s and so on. Yes, she certainly was "held up" enough so that she made the World Team, but she did not defend her title. Tara Lipinski skated a dynamic routine, albeit one with somewhat juvenile choregraphy (she was only 14 years old!), and she won the US title, fairly and squarely.
Michelle finished 3rd overall in the 97 Nats LP, which I think is pretty fair. She beat Nikodinov for 3rd place in the LP a 5-4 split, which I think is ok. The 'high' scores themselves weren't really the issue. Angela was a consistent jumper, but the overall construction and design of her 97 program didn't have the choreographic content of Taj Mahal.
My point is, had the judges been playing the "wait your turn" game at the 1997 US Nationals, Tara Lipinski would not have won the title. She would have been relegated to second or third place, and Michelle's marks would have been held up enough so that she would have retained her title.
I think the judges scored that long program exactly right.
If Michelle had had one fall they still would have handed the title to her. But three mistakes, would have been too obvious, she gave them no choice.Originally posted by SkateFan4Life
My point is, had the judges been playing the "wait your turn" game at the 1997 US Nationals, Tara Lipinski would not have won the title. She would have been relegated to second or third place, and Michelle's marks would have been held up enough so that she would have retained her title.
I think the judges scored that long program exactly right.
Posted by: Peachstateski8er
If Michelle had had one fall they still would have handed the title to her. But three mistakes, would have been too obvious, she gave them no choice.
Yep -- three mistakes, and you lose the gold medal. Had the judges held up Michelle's marks and awarded her the title, with Tara Lipinski's strong long program, there would have been a lot of hooting and hollering about the justice of figure skating judges.
Sorry, but IMO Tara's skating was not as strong in '97. She skated very much like a junior. I don't think the judges were playing any "wait your turn" game with her.
I'm not saying that the judges played the "wait your turn" game with Tara Lipinski at the 1997 Nationals. She won because Michelle Kwan self-destructed in the long program. Under the normal sequence of events, Tara would not have won the title in 1997, had Michelle skated a clean program or perhaps made only ONE mistake in the long program.
My "waiting your turn" tag refers to instances in which a skater clearly outskates the competition but is held back in the marks because he/she is new to the national or international scene.
Perhaps the skater in question would not have won the competition or even medaled, but the marks would have been higher, all things being equal, if that skater wasn't a rookie.
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