History of the loop jump

kzarah · Aug 11, 2008

I believe that the loop jump originated from the loop turn in compulsory figures. As the skater enters the loop he jumped into the air and completed the the loop after he landed. So the loop is an edge jump.
Does anyone have any information or knowledge of the history of the jump to help me prove a point.

Also, is it acceptable for the skater to ride up onto their pick before taking off for the jump?
Daniel

Mafke · Aug 12, 2008

This link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_jump

will answer most or all of your questions.

Also in any jump, the pick is the last part of the skate to leave the ice and the first part to land back onto the ice. Any other technique and the skater will either fall or do horrible damage to their feet/legs.

mskater93 · Aug 12, 2008

If you don't push off the toe pick, you will never get in the air, or you may get in the air but the jump just won't happen.

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 12, 2008

Mafke said:
Also in any jump, the pick is the last part of the skate to leave the ice and the first part to land back onto the ice. Any other technique and the skater will either fall or do horrible damage to their feet/legs.

I don't completely agree with you. I believe the skater takes off on edge jumps from the ball of his foot and with the foot leaning towards the proper take off. The toe pick will go off simultaneously with the rest of the blade. At the landing, the ball of the foot will be the emphasis in directing the completion of the jump, and coordinate the flow out.

From my observation, I see skaters fall forward if they land on their toepicks - or if they are clever enough to put the heel down immediately before anyone notices. If they land on the heel of the blade, it will, more than likely, cut the flow off, and the skater will fall backwards.

As to the loop jump created in the form of the loop figures, I do see that, but others will say it is a spin in the air. It's arguable.

silver.blades · Aug 12, 2008

If you lnad on your toepick and the rest of the blade dosn't follow, then you will fall, but the toepick is almost always the first part of the blade to hit the ice in a jump that is landed. Without the toes pick hitting first the ice hits you instead of you hitting hte ice, making it really hard to control the landing.

gkelly · Aug 12, 2008

Joesitz said:
I don't completely agree with you. I believe the skater takes off on edge jumps from the ball of his foot and with the foot leaning towards the proper take off. The toe pick will go off simultaneously with the rest of the blade.

So if a dancer jumps in flat ballet shoes with proper technique, will the toe of the shoe leave the floor at the same time as the middle and back part of the shoe?

Of course not. The human foot is a hinge from the ankle and good jumping mechanics take advantage of that fact to lift the back of the foot into the air before the middle, with the toe last. The same is true with edge jumps from blades on ice.

It's possible to get off the ground or off the ice using only the knees and not articulating the ankle and foot, but it's not possible to jump very high that way. It's just inefficient biomechanics.

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 12, 2008

silver.blades said:
If you lnad on your toepick and the rest of the blade dosn't follow, then you will fall, but the toepick is almost always the first part of the blade to hit the ice in a jump that is landed. Without the toes pick hitting first the ice hits you instead of you hitting hte ice, making it really hard to control the landing.

I understand what you are saying, but I just can not put so much emphasis on the toe pick being the major player in the landing of a jump. I see it as part of the blade and I believe it follows with the rest of the blade with emphasis on the ball of the foot If you have ever watched Dambier (I think it was he) he had a whole season of landing jumps on the toe pick which precluded any flow out of the landing. He didn't fall, and he did get credit for the air rotations.

mskater93 · Aug 12, 2008

Jumps land toe pick and then roll back. If they do not land on the toe pick first but rather on the ball of the foot as you describe, the result is flip outs, no speed, and falls. Typically, a jump with good flow out lands on the bottom 2-3 teeth of the toe pick and then the skater rolls down onto the blade. If the skater lands high on the toepick, they tend to pitch forward and then you have the situation such as you describe with Dambier.

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 13, 2008

^^^
Good point!

To me it is a question of where on the blade will get a skater a correct landing. Unlike the foot of a dancer which is quite flexible in its parts, the skating blade is not flexible.

gkelly · Aug 13, 2008

The blade itself is not flexible, but the foot is flexible and the blade is curved, so it is possible to roll through the foot/blade on the landing, as well as on the takeoff as I mentioned above.

ElFuego · Aug 13, 2008

Joesitz said:
^^^
Good point!

To me it is a question of where on the blade will get a skater a correct landing.

Believe me, if you land a jump on the flat of the blade (instead of on the back of the toepick then rolling back during the check out) you can feel it. It's jarring to your back.

History of the loop jump

kzarah

Le Patineur et sa Petite Lulu

Mafke

mskater93

Joesitz (RIP)

silver.blades

gkelly

Joesitz (RIP)

mskater93

Joesitz (RIP)

gkelly

ElFuego

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