Sashas Edges | Golden Skate

Sashas Edges

MidnightNess

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Hm

Hm, i'll take a stab at this.

Those are all outside edge pics, she does get a decent outside edge although not as good as others. How about inside edge pics??
 

skatepixie

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
shes like me in that respect, a weaker inside edge. Outside edges seem to be more important, as RBO is landing position.
 

MidnightNess

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
both edges are important especially when sasha is attempting a change of edge spiral and a camel spin with a change of edge. That said, it's nice to see some improvement, good edges make a good skater.
 

BravesSkateFan

Medalist
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
While I agree that her edges are good in the first and last pic, her edges in the 2nd and 3rd pic aren't very deep at all. She does have good body lean which makes it seem like her edge is deeper, but if you look from the ankle down, the edge isn't that deep at all. Perhaps you should pick some better pictures to illustrate your point.

That said, I agree that Sasha has problems with her edges, but I think it lies more in the security of the edges not in the lean. While she doesn't have the deepest edges of the ladies, they aren't horrible either, but I think she defintely needs to work on the security of the edge.

Just My two cents
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Yeah the 2nd and 3rd picture doesn't show a deep edge at all.
It doesn't matter really because it's kind of obvious that her edges aren't secure but maybe they will get better for next season. They improve every season.
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
boggartlaura said:
It's her lack of edge contol that I worry about. And you can't show that in pictures.

Exactly. The CONTROL of the edge, that's what she is lacking. It includes adjust the edges according to the speed, body lean, and the curv on ice etc. There is a physics formular: CenterForce=m*v*v/r=m*G*cos@. and the VerticalSupport=m*G*sin@, which is applied to the blads by the ice surface. Where @ is the angle between blads and the ice surface.

By using above theory I think the speed in Sasha's COE spiral is the reason why she can achieve good outside edge but weak in inside edge. In general, when doing OE, the center gravity of the body -- which is more close to the curve line skater skated at -- allow skater to get enough center force at relative low speed (v) to maintain balance (not tilt over). when doing IE, the center gravity of the body -- which is far away to the curve line skater skated at -- require higher speed to get enough center force in order to maitain balance.

BTW, There was a thread in MKF a while ago where people compared Sasha and Michelle's COE spiral and disscussed using whole scientific analysis.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
SkatePixie, thanks for posting these pictures. I liked the fourth one best -- absolutely stunning.

BTW,for those of you who want to use MZheng's formula to help Sasha control her edges, the value of G has recently been recalibrated with great acuracy by Prof. Jens Gundlach of the University of Washington: G = 6.7390 x 10^(-11) meters cubed per kilogram-seconds squared.:laugh:

Mathman
 

RealtorGal

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Wow, thanks! I'll try to utilize these formulas next time I'm on the ice! Maybe it can keep me off my tush!:laugh:
 

berthes ghost

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Interesting.

What next, some still photos of Sarah getting into a beautiful position for about 3.2 seconds to disprove all those people who say she's gawky? How about some still photos of MK falling to disprove all those who say she's consistant? How can she be consistant when I have 4 shots of her falling? Or how about 4 photos of Alexei on the bronze or silver podium to disprove all of those people who say he's won gold a number of times?

Stop looking at the trees and see the forest.

Listen to Dick gush. Does he go on and on about her superb edging as he does Dotty? No! He talks about her positons, her drama, her jump technique. I don't think I've ever heard a skating expert say she has great edges.
 

blurrysarah

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
As much as I love to watch Sasha's skating, every time she hits that inside-outside spiral I grip the edge of my seat in fear.
 

Yazmeen

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
I've grown into "Sasha fandom," so to speak, over the past year or so. Her edges have definitely improved; However, she still does spend time on her flats, and I also agree that the issue is more a lack of control than a lack of edge. You need great control for landings (even at the wimpy half jump, toeloop and sal stage that I'm currently at), and this seems to be a problem for her. One of the most tellling events where this lack of edge control affected her came in the Worlds LP, not with her jumps, but with her falling off her edge in the camel spin. That simply should not have happened. To me, Sasha has the potential to be one of the best skaters out there, but her edge control issues and hef consistency/concentration problems get in the way. Here's hoping to her conquering those demons and having a fabulous season. She is so lovely to watch. I can't wait to see a sharply attacked and clean program from Sasha.
 

registered

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
berthes ghost said:
Interesting.

Listen to Dick gush. Does he go on and on about her superb edging as he does Dotty? No! He talks about her positons, her drama, her jump technique. I don't think I've ever heard a skating expert say she has great edges.

Not true, I've heard TV commentators to complement on Sasha's deep, flowing edges many times.
 

Fossi

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
registered said:
Not true, I've heard TV commentators to complement on Sasha's deep, flowing edges many times.

You must watch Eurosport then? You're so lucky. I wish I could watch skating on Eurosport.
 

rtureck

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
berthes ghost said:
Interesting.

What next, some still photos of Sarah getting into a beautiful position for about 3.2 seconds to disprove all those people who say she's gawky? How about some still photos of MK falling to disprove all those who say she's consistant? How can she be consistant when I have 4 shots of her falling? Or how about 4 photos of Alexei on the bronze or silver podium to disprove all of those people who say he's won gold a number of times?


Berthes Ghost, ITA.

I think the best way to judge edges and edge security is to be there, present in person to watch them skate.
 

rtureck

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
from mzheng

It includes adjust the edges according to the speed, body lean, and the curv on ice etc. There is a physics formular: CenterForce=m*v*v/r=m*G*cos@. and the VerticalSupport=m*G*sin@, which is applied to the blads by the ice surface. Where @ is the angle between blads and the ice surface.

By using above theory I think the speed in Sasha's COE spiral is the reason why she can achieve good outside edge but weak in inside edge. In general, when doing OE, the center gravity of the body -- which is more close to the curve line skater skated at -- allow skater to get enough center force at relative low speed (v) to maintain balance (not tilt over). when doing IE, the center gravity of the body -- which is far away to the curve line skater skated at -- require higher speed to get enough center force in order to maitain balance.

mzheng, I actually find this thread rather business as usual, until I see your description. Since I am so Math and Physics challenged, I can't quite understand, but it is a good chance to learn something new.

So by Sasha's speed in COE, you mean the v in the equation?

the curve line is r?

I guess it makes sense because center force is proportional to v/r, so if r is smaller then v can be smaller.

Now about @ , you said is the angle formed by the blade and the ice, so the smaller the @, the deeper the edge?

So for a skater 1 who has deep edges, i.e. @1 is a small angle, and skater 2 who has shallow edge, i.e. @2 is a large angle?

The value of cos of a smaller angle is greater than the value of cos of a larger angle right?
 
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