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Thread: 2008 BC SummerSkate

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    I enjoy Joannie's skating and am glad that we get to see a lady out there among the young girls. I don't know what's lacking in her skating - perhaps the wow-factor. Her jumps are alright, her spins are alright, her skating skills are alright... The Buttle-comparision works to some extend, because IMO there is nothing really wow about Buttle's programs - except for his outstanding musicality. And that makes perhaps the difference - after seeing Joannie I think, oh, that spin was okay, the Salchow was nice, footwork was alright... With Buttle it is often that through his musicality the program seems to belong together, all his good elements come together and create something whole and really enjoyable (though it rarely grips me as Lambiel's, Weir's, Joubert's or even Verner's programs do). And I remember Buttle's programs, I can't remember any of Joannie's though. All of this is of course just my opinion ;-)
    I agree that Joannie lacks the 'wow' factor and indeed she does not have Jeff's musicality. What I see when Joannie skates is a strong, athletic skater intent on completing all her elements as cleanly as she can. I do not see her performing the program, as Jeff does. Where the sum of Jeff's efforts is somehow greater than the whole because of his 'performance' factor, the sum of Joannie's efforts is less than the whole.

    It's not that it is impossible for Joannie to ever have a 'wow' performance. I never, ever saw a 'wow' performance from Sarah Hughes until the 2002 Olympic FS (and I never again saw one from her after that). If Joannie could just once concentrate on selling the performance and not the individual elements, maybe it could happen for her.

  2. #17
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Joannie had this same type of lackluster performance at last season's Canada fluff summer competition for the same reason - lack of training time due to her touring schedule and for the simple reason that it's a brand new program and the very first time she's competed it. I find it very humorous that some make such a big deal out of a meaningless dress rehearsal event such as this. By the time of Skate Canada last season, she was landing a 6 triple LP and threatening Yukari Nakano for 2nd place overall. She only finished 1.25 points behind Nakano with bronze (169.43 vs. 168.18). Joannie should be ready for Skate Canada . . . she usually is ('05 silver, '06 gold, '07 bronze). There's still plenty of time for her to be ready where she wants to be for this season.

    As for a "wow" performance from Joannie, I think her 2004 Trophee Eric Bompard LP, 2005 Nationals LP, 2006 Olympics LP, 2007 Cup of Russia LP, and 2008 4CC SP certainly qualify.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 08-19-2008 at 07:14 PM.

  3. #18
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    That summertime show program has double wow. I think she has great musicality, a wonderful back and enormous potential. She is unable to put it all together much of the time,due to her inconsistency. When you miss jumping passes it always is distracting. Some skaters are allowed to make many mistakes (Kostner for example) and it goes unnoticed. The number of "clean" programs for any skater is going to be decreased due to how hard the programs are and the number of times they are asked to do it "perfectly" When Joannie does do a clean program I am pretty sure it will have the wow factor.

  4. #19
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    After Mira lost, Shawn Johnson gave her a hug and made her feel better.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Mira appreciates your continued support and good wishes.
    Well, I do hope that she reaches her dreams. I mean, you can tell that she has made a note of her weaknesses and has been working at them. She seems to be the kind of person to want to do the newest thing that the top ladies do. Most recently, she has practiced a pearl spin and she does it very well. Figure skating is such a tough sport and so competitive because there are so many great skaters out there. She continues to plug along and do her thing.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    BTW, Laney Diggs finished 20th and last at 2008 US Nationals. So Canada's #2 lady was beaten in BC by US #20. In her SP, Mira fell on the 3F and underrotated the 2A (as usual).

    But the other top Canadian skaters who competed at the Quebec championship didn't do too much better, and some of them were worse.

    Cynthia Phaneuf fell on both 3Z and 3F in her SP. Joannie Rochette popped the 3F (so no combo) and doubled the lutz. Joannie didn't do the FS, but Cynthia did, and she was unable to land either 3Z or 3F. Myriane Samson didn't land one triple jump in her FS. Doesn't look as if these 3 ladies headed for Skate Canada are anywhere near ready, and Skate Canada is just a little over 2 months away.

    You worry me.

  7. #22
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    There has been much discussion about the lack of Joannie's wow factor. So, let me ask this: does Mira have the wow factor, and, does she have the potential to have the wow factor? With many of her long time weaknesses now being address, could the wow factor make all the difference in her placing internationally?

  8. #23
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginask8s View Post
    When Joannie does do a clean program I am pretty sure it will have the wow factor.
    I agree with this. The best way to get blockbuster scores on the second mark is to hit everything on the tech side.

  9. #24
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    I agree with the fact that this is a summer competition, and a lot will change. Joannie also did a [color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color] happen program last year in the summer, but had the best GP season she had since 2004/2005.

    Since we moved to the "Wow" factor of Joannie. I agree, Joannie has some "wow" performances and some not so "wow" performances. So is not quite there yet with performing elite "wow" factor performances consistently, but what is important is that she does everything nicely with full completion.

    She is a very mature skater, with good skating lines and position. In my opinion, only a few percentage of skaters in the world can get that much done! So she is easy to watch and I don't cringe when I see bad positions or overdone movements like every other skater out there! Plus she has good music quality, nice arms movements, and flows well across the ice. Seeing the top 24 at Worlds last year....only 10 or so have even that much down.

    So overall, Joannie is a well-rounded skater and I have high expectations for her this season. I think she'll be hovering around the 3rd-5th placement again at worlds, but we shall see how things play out this season before making to many predictions.....

  10. #25
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    Multiple World medals? One silver (2005) in what was probably the worst Worlds in quite a few years.

    I enjoy Joannie's skating and am glad that we get to see a lady out there among the young girls. I don't know what's lacking in her skating - perhaps the wow-factor. Her jumps are alright, her spins are alright, her skating skills are alright... The Buttle-comparision works to some extend, because IMO there is nothing really wow about Buttle's programs - except for his outstanding musicality. And that makes perhaps the difference - after seeing Joannie I think, oh, that spin was okay, the Salchow was nice, footwork was alright... With Buttle it is often that through his musicality the program seems to belong together, all his good elements come together and create something whole and really enjoyable (though it rarely grips me as Lambiel's, Weir's, Joubert's or even Verner's programs do). And I remember Buttle's programs, I can't remember any of Joannie's though. All of this is of course just my opinion ;-)
    I would agree with everything that you wrote with the exception of Buttle's spins which i think are phenomenal - the edge changes and changes of position rarely affect the speed of rotation or the centring of the spin. In that respect i think he is Lambiel's equal.

    Ant

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I would agree with everything that you wrote with the exception of Buttle's spins which i think are phenomenal - the edge changes and changes of position rarely affect the speed of rotation or the centring of the spin. In that respect i think he is Lambiel's equal.

    Ant

    I think Mira's spins are excellent. I think she is a natural spinner even more so than a jumper.

    IMO, there are only a handful of skaters in the world that actually have the wow factor. This elite group of skaters bring something magical to their performance. It's more than a flashy smile or waving their arms around. I think they really have to have the soul of an artist as Jeff Buttle or Yu Na Kim or Sale/Pelletier have. I think they tend to be highly sensitive people at least in response to music . They're just made that way. A person with a wow factor is not necessarily the best technical skater, but if a skater has the wow factor plus a clean performance that's a wow performance.

    With that explanation, I think both Joannie and Mira can impress the audience with a clean performance, but do I think they have the wow factor? Not really.

  12. #27
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by passion View Post
    IMO, there are only a handful of skaters in the world that actually have the wow factor. This elite group of skaters bring something magical to their performance. It's more than a flashy smile or waving their arms around. I think they really have to have the soul of an artist as Jeff Buttle or Yu Na Kim or Sale/Pelletier have. I think they tend to be highly sensitive people at least in response to music . They're just made that way. A person with a wow factor is not necessarily the best technical skater, but if a skater has the wow factor plus a clean performance that's a wow performance.
    I think that this definition of wow-factor is a bit narrow - I don't kow if Joubert has the soul of an artist, but in my opinion he has definitely the wow-factor. His strength and self-confidence, the suspense in his programs. Same goes for VDPerrren, who has really bad spins (and sometimes bad footwork). But the power and joy in his jumps and in his skating makes up for it. I always thought that VDPerren should get more PCS. Especially in his short program the low PCS he gets really reduces his chances to place well in the end.

    Yu-Na's wow factor (and Weir's and Buttle's) have in my opinion much to do with their fantastic technique, their flowy jumps - I for one can't really enjoy Weir's or Buttle's programs if they are all over the place (and you've got to admit, both had their shaky moments - or may I say shaky seasons) .

    And I am sorry, Mira's jumping technique and the lack of - don't know - enjoyment in her skating - distracts me from any invisible wow-factor that may exist.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    And I am sorry, Mira's jumping technique and the lack of - don't know - enjoyment in her skating - distracts me from any invisible wow-factor that may exist.
    Even with her improved technique (skating and jumping), and improved carriage?

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