Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 46

Thread: Michelle on the Today Show

  1. #16
    Loving pairs, dance and figure skating mycelticblessing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    a tiny island
    Posts
    690
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Michelle with her 3Tx3T by Kimmie alone with her 3Zx3T. Can you imagine what Caroline, Rachael and Mirai will score on jumps at that Nats?

    Michelle will probably have a Flying Sits, and what else. A Bielman? hmmm.

    Footwork? with the right choreographer, yeah, she could pull that off.

    PCS: Well, great spiral, skating ability? - not by comparison to above-named, but Very lyrical and neat.

    Realistically: A nice performance which we all will enjoy watching. A medal? Nah.
    Even so, I'm sure everyone will be thrilled just to see her skate again. Her last public performance was two years ago wasn't it?

  2. #17
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    California
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Michelle with her 3Tx3T by Kimmie alone with her 3Zx3T. Can you imagine what Caroline, Rachael and Mirai will score on jumps at that Nats?

    Michelle will probably have a Flying Sits, and what else. A Bielman? hmmm.

    Footwork? with the right choreographer, yeah, she could pull that off.

    PCS: Well, great spiral, skating ability? - not by comparison to above-named, but Very lyrical and neat.

    Realistically: A nice performance which we all will enjoy watching. A medal? Nah.
    Well - alot can happen - the young-uns will be hitting their growth spurt big time by then. And Kimmie has not exactly been a sure thing lately. And if Michelle competes she'll bring her A game - and your dismissive description of her skills and skating hardly does her justice. A year ago when skating next to Caroline, well just her stroking put her in another stratosphere. Even Caroline was standing looking in awe. But no matter what the case - as none of us have a crystal ball - I hope she comes back if she is able and has the passion. Then it surely will be a treat for us all.

  3. #18
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,110
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Michelle with her 3Tx3T by Kimmie alone with her 3Zx3T.
    Last year Kimmie failed on her 3Lz+3T at Skate American SP, Skate America LP, Eric Bompard SP, Eric Bompard LP, GP final SP, GP final LP, US Nationals SP, US Nationals LP, Worlds SP and Worlds LP. She was 0 for 10. So we'll have to wait and see whether Kimmie's big combo is a threat or not this year.
    Can you imagine what Caroline, Rachael and Mirai will score on jumps at that Nats?
    I can image quite a few scenarios , but by-the-numbers, in ISU competitions here some personal bests:

    Caroline Zhang, 176.48
    Michelle Kwan 175.20
    Rachael Flatt, 175.20
    Mirai Nagasu, 163.84
    Ashley wagner, 158.63

    Never mind the Olympics, it would be beyond cool if Michelle came back to win her tenth U.S. Championship!

    Internationally, I suppose it's a pipe dream after all. The winning performance at the 2010 Olympics will probably be over 200 points. Mao Asada's personal best is 199.52; Yuna Kim, 197.60; Miki Ando 195.09.

    On the other hand, Shizuka Arakawa scored 191.34 at Torino with only five triples and no triple-triple combo. I don't see any reason why Michelle couldn't match that.
    Last edited by Mathman; 08-21-2008 at 11:14 PM.

  4. #19
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    I think you all are missing my point about the US Nats.

    The competition will NOT be judged under the 6.0 system, in which MK won in 2005 Nats and not since then. But she has to stand up to the high tech quality of the USFS' trio of stars plus a renewed Kimmie, Emily,Ashley, Bebe and how many more who are feverishly working to make it to the Olys.

    Add up the points if she skates her best: jumps, spins, footowk, etc (don't forget, she hasn't trained since 2005). and compare it with the 3 stars. I doubt it would even be close.

    I am sure she will skate beautifully and somewhat competitively and she will bring down the Staples Center with the loudest ROAR but.....

  5. #20
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    UK - Manchester
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I think you all are missing my point about the US Nats.

    The competition will NOT be judged under the 6.0 system, in which MK won in 2005 Nats and not since then. But she has to stand up to the high tech quality of the USFS' trio of stars plus a renewed Kimmie, Emily,Ashley, Bebe and how many more who are feverishly working to make it to the Olys.

    Add up the points if she skates her best: jumps, spins, footowk, etc (don't forget, she hasn't trained since 2005). and compare it with the 3 stars. I doubt it would even be close.
    I don't know Joe, did you miss this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    but by-the-numbers, in ISU competitions here some personal bests:

    Caroline Zhang, 176.48
    Michelle Kwan 175.20
    Rachael Flatt, 175.20
    Mirai Nagasu, 163.84
    Ashley wagner, 158.63

    Never mind the Olympics, it would be beyond cool if Michelle came back to win her tenth U.S. Championship!

  6. #21
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I don't know Joe, did you miss this:
    Ant, as I said, I have not stopped thinking she isn't the greatest skater ever but the CoP says scores will win. MM scores are probably correct but the sources are from judges who have always carried MK in the past - even to the secret test for the Olys. With Sasha Cohen's best scores, wouldn't she be on that list? and I don't think her PB would give her an easy time at 2009 US Nats.

    I'm just being realistic about a great skater who hasn't really skated for some time now. I would love to be wrong, but realistically, I think I am correct.

  7. #22
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I'm just being realistic about a great skater who hasn't really skated for some time now. I would love to be wrong, but realistically, I think I am correct.
    Flatt's and Nagasu's scores are junior scores. So there is the required jump in the short, only three spins in the long.

    Caronline Zhang's score (higher than Kwan's) is from the Senior-GPF - but she only had 5 triples in that program, the second lutz was underrotated, edge-called and she fell on it (which pretty much everything that can go wrong with a jump).

    So how would have Flatt's Junior Worlds program scored at the Senior-GPF? That was a solid 7 Triple performance with just one edge call. And after the funny differences in the scoring between 4CC and Worlds (where a clean performance at Worlds somehow scored less than a sketchy one at 4CC , e.g. Buttle's short) I don't think we can trust the scores anyway if we want to determine future results / chances.

    And we shouldn't forget that the edge calls and underrotation rules weren't in place when Kwan competed the last time - her lutz isn't one with a perfect outside edge, and would she nowadays escape those pesky underrotation calls?

  8. #23
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,192
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I think you all are missing my point about the US Nats.

    The competition will NOT be judged under the 6.0 system, in which MK won in 2005 Nats and not since then.

    But she has to stand up to the high tech quality of the USFS' trio of stars plus a renewed Kimmie, Emily,Ashley, Bebe and how many more who are feverishly working to make it to the Olys.
    I kind of think everyone knows by now that US Nats are not judged under 6.0.
    And I have to say that I think Michelle could beat Emily and Bebe blindfolded, and Ashley and Kimmie if she comes back with her old form.
    Last edited by jenaj; 08-23-2008 at 11:42 PM. Reason: fix quote

  9. #24
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,095
    Kwan hasn't competed at US Nationals since 2005, you make it sound as if she did and didn't win under IJS in the comment that her "last win was under 6.0".

    Kwan with her peak level of skills (3/3 ability - don't think she only had a 3T-3T, there were more in there, speed, spirals, steps, and spins) could easily compete with the top skaters.

    The question more is: would she be able to regain those peak skills?

  10. #25
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Kwan hasn't competed at US Nationals since 2005, you make it sound as if she did and didn't win under IJS in the comment that her "last win was under 6.0".

    Kwan with her peak level of skills (3/3 ability - don't think she only had a 3T-3T, there were more in there, speed, spirals, steps, and spins) could easily compete with the top skaters.

    The question more is: would she be able to regain those peak skills?
    When was the last time MK did a 3Tx3T?

    and your question about will she be able to regain her previous peak is a very valid question. Will she put in the time to train for that? Also, if you add more tech, will she be able to catch up to the higher standard of of today's Caroline, Mirai and Rachael.

    MK was never a spinner. Big question would be if the surgery was successful, will she be able to spin faster and with a Bielman?

    If she actually skates in a Regional/Sectional it will be remarkable if she places. If she skates in the US Nats and places, it will be the biggest comeback in figure skating history.

  11. #26
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    California
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    When was the last time MK did a 3Tx3T?

    and your question about will she be able to regain her previous peak is a very valid question. Will she put in the time to train for that? Also, if you add more tech, will she be able to catch up to the higher standard of of today's Caroline, Mirai and Rachael.

    MK was never a spinner. Big question would be if the surgery was successful, will she be able to spin faster and with a Bielman?

    If she actually skates in a Regional/Sectional it will be remarkable if she places. If she skates in the US Nats and places, it will be the biggest comeback in figure skating history.
    While I agree that if Michelle wins Nationals it would be an amazing come back - I must have been watching different skaters than you these last few years. The only technical advantage Caroline, Mirai, and Rachael have over Michelle is the triple/triples they're doing. New rules make the bielman unnecessary. All of their other skating skills cannot compare to hers - honestly they look like children with tiny slow strokes in the case of Caroline and Mirai, and sloppy posture in the case of Rachael. And her spins will be fine - fast and centered - not as bendy as the kids but very solid technically. Now don't get me wrong I like them all - but Michelle Kwan they're not. Now the next two years for them could bring maturity or crisis with the changes in their bodies. Look at what happened to Kimmie. And with the deductions on wrong edge take offs I think we will see a reduction in ratified 3/3's as so many of them the last 3 season have been cheated. Who knows, but if Michelle can get a triple triple consistant - she will be competitive with them easily I think - and yes that's a big if. I can't believe your seeing the same skaters as I am if you think any of them have the edging or qualitiy of footwork MK has - not to mention the artistry, confidence, consistancy, and performance ability. Now the ones I do worry about are Yu Na and Mao - that would be a challenge - then again I would not count her out if she goes for this.
    Last edited by Kathy; 08-22-2008 at 10:29 PM.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,110
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    If she actually skates in a Regional/Sectional it will be remarkable if she places.
    I think she might have a chance. Last year Tenile Victorsen won Pacific Coast Sectionals with 3S, 3Lo, 3T, 2A, 3T, 3S+2T+2T, 2A+2T. Ye Bin Mok won the LP at Southwest Pacific Regionals with 3T, 3S, 2A, 3T, 2A, 2F+2T, 2A.

    No one did a triple-triple of any sort in these contests. Whether Michelle could skate at this level depends on how successful her surgery was. Will she be able to do a loop jump at all on her repaired hip?
    If she skates in the US Nats and places, it will be the biggest comeback in figure skating history.
    That's a different thing altogether. At U.S, Nationals last year, Nagasu did 3Lz+3T in both SP and LP (with an underrotation on the second jump in the LP)

    Rachael Flatt did 3Lz+3T in both SP and LP

    Ashley Wagner did 3Lz+3Lo in both SP and LP

    Caroline Zhange did 3F+3T in both SP and LP (underrotation -- qestionable -- on the second jump in the SP)

    That's a lot of points to make up if Michelle's biggest point-getter is 3Lz+2T.

    I agree, it would be the greatest achievement of her career if she came back and made the podium in 2010. Still...she's not Michelle Kwan for nothing.
    Last edited by Mathman; 08-22-2008 at 11:45 PM.

  13. #28
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    387
    I think all athletes need closure (I know I do). Kwan was never able to give us a proper goodbye and might still want do a final competition to close out her career.

  14. #29
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    She may want the final Roar Of The Crowd, and she certainly deserves it.

    There are so many hopes and ifs to think about her competitively. Yet I like the idea of the present 3 top US Ladies going into Vancouver.

    btw, we haven't discussed the two for Cleveland and whether they can muster up 13 points to give a 3 for 2010. But that's another thread.

  15. #30
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    4,987
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterB View Post
    I think all athletes need closure (I know I do). Kwan was never able to give us a proper goodbye and might still want do a final competition to close out her career.
    I think she should skate in the Nationals Gala as her goodbye and I would to see her do commentary, but she seems uninterested there.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •