Bebe Liang out of Golden West | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Bebe Liang out of Golden West

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
rGirl - You're changing a Bebe thread to a Tara thread. There certainly are good reasons for bringing up Tara. Anytime there is a hip problem, she comes to mind. I think it's because everyone was concerned about her health - even her nonfans! And we all hope to see her find her way in life.

Dave Amorde - Good to hear that report on Bebe's hip! It's no secret that she is my top 2nd tier skater with an outside chance to take the gold in Torino.

EricAba - "My question is, what can be done in the sport, in general, to make skaters' health a main priority?"

good question! I don't think the ISU could make a rule as they did with Elaine Zayak, but I think they could make a what I would call a "Lipinski Warning". It would be there for all skaters, coaches, parents and guardians to read. Whether they take heed, is another matter, but at least the reminder is there. I don't think a rule imposing triples for the junior ladies would work, although that would be a great help. I don't think it affects everyone.

rGirl - You are quite knowldegable in this area. Why is it that young men do not seem to have this problem? (or do they?)

Joe
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Besides I don't think she did the combos to be popular. She did it to win. I just think she thought winning would put her over Michelle popularity wise and it didn't happen. I know it was on her mind and she couldn't understand it. In fact she thinks people hate her. Her words, not mine. I just wonder if winning and ruining her hip was worth it. Tara is a good person as far as I can tell and I did enjoy her skating (although not a fan). She's the only one who I really think was a true rival to Michelle and I miss the girl. Well I think Sasha may be if she gets it together.
 

maxell1313

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Re: Re: Bebe Liang out of Golden West

Dave Amorde said:
As the orginal source of the injury report, I find the above to be way over the top. What part of "minor" do you not understand? Don't people realize that Goldenwest is simply a local club competition? She's a little sore - THAT'S IT!

Dave, pull your head out of your nether-regions and go re-read my original post. The "stupid" part to which I was referring was about the increase in injuries due to younger and younger skaters being required to perform more difficult triples and 3/3 jumps. I fully understand the term "minor" although I question your understanding of basically everything else. You might also want to read the entire thread instead of choosing one post and blowing up. Really.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
RGirl, I agree with you that it sould have been Tara's coach who should have put a check on her jumps. That's what the coaches are their for!
 

Yazmeen

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Rgirl: I'm sorry if you find the criticisms of Tara hurtful, but its her own words that set her up for such criticism. I'm sure you will agree that Tara is a role model for young skaters, and in general, she's a good one; However, to make a direct quote that repetitive jumping gave you a serious injury but "it was worth it" (her words, not mine, I read the publication myself which was produced last year) because you got an Olympic Gold medal is utterly irresponsible and inappropriate. Yeah, its worth it kids, I might be injured and that injury will affect me all my life, but I'm a STAR!!!!! This has nothing to do with her charity work, her work with children and her other fine qualities. Its just one area where she set a really bad example and she doesn't appear to be doing anything to change that.
 

Dave Amorde

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Maxell, my head isn't up my "nether-regions". I don't know where yours is. I doubt you have any clue what Bebe's training regimen is, what the original cause of her injury was, or anything else about this delightful girl's situation. To use the word "stupid" in any context regarding Bebe Liang is insulting, plain and simple. To say that it is a result of "3-3's and quads" is purely irresponsible conjecture on your part.
 

skatepixie

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Joesitz said:
Anka - Shame on you. BeBe is a Sasha wannabe. Total bravura style of skating. I'm hoping the hip problem is no worse than Sasha's was back in 2001.

I see bebe as dffrent than sasha by a LOT.

Btw, sasha hurt her back, not her hip.
 

cianni

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Tara Dissd

RGirl, I agree it was up to Taras coach and parents to put the limits on the jumping.She wasnt aware at 14 0r 15 that that pain was dangerous. However after surgery and being told by her Dr. to let her hip heal it was her responsibility to listen and follow Drs, orders. She was still in great pain and went back on the ice.However her plight hasnt had any effect on the skating world and these young skaters. The coaches and parents dont seem to protect these younsters from themselves. Injury after injury and they keep going. I think you are right about Michelle and the 3/3 if it causes injury stop. The skating will last a few yrs. the hip injurywill be forever.

lavender, I agree I think Tara thought the OGM would put her over Michelle and rightfully so but what usually goes with the OGM slipped by her and she never was embraced and loved by the General public and the media that went to Michelle. Im sure that hurt her because she did take a back seat when she thought she would be the Star

yazeem,you hit the nail on the head.However I do feel sorry for her she reminds me of the poor little rich girl. Tara still wants to be the star and is riding that medal for all its worth. I would think it would serve her well to go to school or do something she can fall back on. Im not sure how long she can skate and acting is tough to break into. Many skaters have gone to school or aregoing now, good mature thinking.

Joesitz, I also think Tara is fading and will be a footnot in a book as the youngest OGM champ. Does present a sad story
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Smiley0884 said:
I don't get the Bebe and Sasha comparasion either :confused:

They and Tara Lipinski are very short, very motivated people with a lot of energy, drive, and ambition?
 

swannanoa54

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Bebe's MINOR injury

Dave Amorde said:
Maxell, my head isn't up my "nether-regions". I don't know where yours is. I doubt you have any clue what Bebe's training regimen is, what the original cause of her injury was, or anything else about this delightful girl's situation. To use the word "stupid" in any context regarding Bebe Liang is insulting, plain and simple. To say that it is a result of "3-3's and quads" is purely irresponsible conjecture on your part.

Maxell stated:
"Someone on the SkateFans list said she's withdrawn due to a "minor hip injury". Exactly how "minor" is anyone's guess. And if she wants to go to Nationals she HAS to skate in the GP, so I hope her injury does heal fully before she has to endure that grind.

Once again, another talented skater out because of the demand for more 3/3 and quad jumps. Stupid, stupid, stupid!"

Ok, let me see if I can explain this, dave, so that you GET it. Maxell quoted "minor hip injury" in relation to Bebe. And also stated "I hope her injury does heal fully". Ok, that's reasonable.

However, the last statement doesn't refer to Bebe as stupid unless you're reading something I don't see. Goodness, it applies to ALL our talented skaters. Here is another one that is out whether it's a local competition or not, due to a MINOR hip injury practicing 3/3s. THAT is stupid, stupid, stupid, to have these young athletes feel it is absolutely necessary to have these jumps before their bodies even reach puberty!

Now, do YOU know the EXACT cause of her injury, dave amorde? Were YOU there? Or are you just reporting what you've read? Because it would seem to me that you are taking offense at something maxell didn't even say.

As for me, I think it is ludicrous to have these young ladies doing this. Not only the hip can be injured but the back as well. Look at Sasha. She missed an entire season with a back injury. Sure, it's a sport. Everyone gets hurt. But in EVERY sport there is an attempt to try and minimize injury if at all possible. Is there an answer? Sure, quit trying to turn figure skating into a jump fest. I've been watching tennis and when I saw Wimbledon and Venus played with that pulled stomach muscle, I thought "How wrong!"

This week Tracy Austin said Venus told her she almost pulled out but she wanted to do it for the fans. When an athlete does that, I wonder about their goals in the sport. I'm glad both sisters decided not to play the Open this year. They both have injuries. However here's Lindsay Davenport playing with a bad foot.

I suppose it's just the risks you have to take if you want to be the best. And maybe the injuries are the result of bad technique. I just know that i wish Bebe well and a quick recovery.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Dave Amorde, please don't get mad and go away. You have an insider's view of a lot of things that are going on in the sport, especially in California, and your posts are always interesting. (You are lucky to know Bebe Liang and other famous skaters personally -- I'm jealous.)

In Dave's defense, Realistic and Maxell, in the sentence:

"Once again, another talented skater out because of the demand for more 3/3 and quad jumps."

grammatically speaking the subject of the sentence is "another talented skater" -- i.e., Beatrisa. So you can understand why Dave reacted as he did.

On the other hand, this general topic, skating injuries due to overtraining at too young an age, is one that is of deep concern to everyone involved in the sport. We have had several threads here at Golden Skate about what can be done to prevent injuries that not only cut skaters' careers short, but also give them problems for the rest of their lives.

Mathman

PS. About comparing Bebe to Sasha, I think what Joe was saying is that Bebe's presentation style, like Sasha's, falls into the "bravura" rather than the "lyrical" category. That is an interesting claim. I don't know whether I agree or not. I look forward to seeing Bebe in her Grand Prix events; I'll be looking for this in her performances.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Bebe's Style of Figure Skating

Thanks for coming to my rescue, Mathman. Most posters know I classify style in figure skating. It's a ballet habit I developed over the years. The two big classifications I see are Lyrical and Bravura. The latter is brilliant technique with performance aimed at the audience (judges?). The former is supple technique with performance musically inspired. There is nothing wrong with either of these major styles!!!

There are subdivisions based on what the skater is also trying to bring across within the two major classifications. These are coquette and elegant. And there are others depending on the music, certainly dramatic plays a big role.

For all you confused posters of my saying that Bebe is a Sasha wannabe, is really a compliment to Sasha that some younger skater, who imo, would want to look up to. That is indeed, a big compliment to Sasha. Bebe fans should be upset if anyone.

Now, I am sure everyone will be looking at Bebe and scrutinzing her style. Good. I think I am right.;)

(As to those other posters, please ease off on the personal name-calling - not nice and not GS).

Joe
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Tara isn’t the only skater who incurred severe injury by doing too much, too soon. Naomi Nari Nam had the same injury as Tara, and had the same surgery by the same surgeon. Deanna Stellato’s career was also cut short by injury.

Both Tara and NNN were tiny, small-framed girls when they injured themselves. Very young, slightly built skaters do not have the strength to propel their bodies high enough into the air to complete triples and 3/3s in the normal way, so they compensate by super-fast rotation in the air. This subjects the body to a high degree of torsion, and it is that torsion that causes damage to the hip flexors. BeBe is tiny, although her body is not quite as slight as Tara’s or NNN’s. I just hope she is not having the same problem.

Tiny Japanese 12-, 13- and 14-year-olds who are concentrating all their efforts on 3As and quads have not only followed in Tara’s footsteps, but have upped the ante. Following their example, young skaters everywhere are pushing themselves to stay competitive. How many of these skaters will still be around at the age of 18?.
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Re: Bebe's Style of Figure Skating

Joesitz said:

For all you confused posters of my saying that Bebe is a Sasha wannabe, is really a compliment to Sasha that some younger skater, who imo, would want to look up to. That is indeed, a big compliment to Sasha.

It is a great, if somewhat mischievous, compliment to Cohen: for almost a decade, the role model for US skaters has been Kwan, the gentle Lyric. That is limiting stylistically (as opposed to technically) to skaters who don't have the same body type, temperament, and/or musical and dramatic sense.

Cohen has made a mark for herself, achieved both through style and technique (such as her spiral and spin positions). Now it's fine for young skaters to point to an alternative style and to aspire to that.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
hockeyfan - Exactly!

Injuries of Tara, Deanna, NNN are the ones we know of. There was a thread which I was unable to drag over to GS to show that there are young girls (moreso than boys) facing surgery due to skating stress on the hips every year who have not yet entered a competition.

A very sad state of affairs going on here.

Joe
 

maxell1313

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:

In Dave's defense, Realistic and Maxell, in the sentence:

"Once again, another talented skater out because of the demand for more 3/3 and quad jumps."

grammatically speaking the subject of the sentence is "another talented skater" -- i.e., Beatrisa. So you can understand why Dave reacted as he did.

With all due respect, Mathman, no, I don't understand. I am extremely tired of young, up-and-coming skaters getting sidelined with injuries that could easily be avoided if the demand for jumps, jumps, and more jumps was given the heave-ho. Nor do I appreciate getting my head bitten off for making an observation. Never once did I say anything disrespectful towards Bebe, because I do like her as a skater and think she has great promise. I also never stated that she was dumping her whole season, just that she'd withdrawn from Golden West. Where people want to take the discussion after that isn't in my control so I'm not taking the blame for this one, thanks.
 

Dave Amorde

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
I think the recent increase in ladies trying 3A's is an acknowledgement that the increased risks inherent in the 3/3 combos makes them less attractive. It would be interesting to hear from a medical practitioner if there is a clinical reason why girls seem to be more prone to this type of injury than boys. As someone who has suffered through three abdominal hernia surgeries, I know that the differences between boys and girls can sometimes be painful. ;)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Just trying to make peace, Maxell. No offense intended.

Joe, as I've said before, I like your classification of balletic styles as applied to figure skating. It gives me something to watch for. But it's not always obvious how to classify my favorites. Not to mention, performers can skate in different styles on different ocassions.

Michelle is certainly the prototypical "lyrical" skater, but in Aranjuez we saw a bigger, bolder, "look what I can do" attitude from her. I liked that, too.

As for deciding between "elegant" and "coquette," to me, Michelle (not to mention Sasha and Bebe!) is really too young to be either of these. "Elegant" is the Protopopovs:

http://www.shanfan.com/nongymn/skating/books/official/protopopovs.jpg

"Coquette" is Katarina Witt:

http://www.gg.caltech.edu/~jeff/images/katerina_witt6.gif

Mathman
 
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