Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Does the 'Half Loop' deserve more credit?

  1. #1
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    199

    Does the 'Half Loop' deserve more credit?

    So we all know that into current point systems, sequences are given 20% lesser value versus true jump combinations. To most extent, I consider this fair especially for in between moves such as hops and steps.

    However, I still think the half-loop is still not given enough credit for connecting jumps. A skater must maintain great speed and balance in order to successfully compete jump sequences with a half loop. If the first jump of is even off a little bit, the entire jump sequence is bound to collapse. I've seen just as many skater fail doing half-loop jump sequences as those who do combinations.

    For example: Look at Yagudin attempt this very difficult Triple Axle - half loop - Triple Salchow combination about 1:25 into the program.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwy-p...eature=related

    He was simply way off balance coming out of the axle. He could have "save" sequence by doing a step than a Triple Toe, but opted a more difficult sequence.

    One of the most amazing jumping pass was Plushenko's Triple Axle-half loop - Triple Flip: 1:25 into the program

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zOv8NgVNdY

    And that was suppose to as easier than a Triple Axle - T.Toe combo? Mind as well just do the Axle, take a few strokes, then do the Flip to get complete points.

    Here is Shizuka Arakwa Triple Toe - half loop - T.Toe sequence, 3:30 into the program in 1999:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTu6S...eature=related

    Once again, much more difficult to maintain a strong edge between the sequence, rather than doing a hop or steps.

    Once could argue true combinations are more difficult than sequences. However, I just think that sequences themselves have a strong enough difficulty range that connecting moves such as the half-loop should garner more credit. Maybe have it count as 90% of jumping pass, or better yet be score equal as a combination.

    As the Code of Points continue to change and evolve, hopefully ISU will one day recognize this issue.

  2. #2
    Sitting Here on Blue Jay Way silver.blades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    894
    I think that the 20% deduction for sequences is stupid. They should get full value. I think it makes more sense for combos to get bonuses than sequences to be deducted.

    However, I still think the half-loop is still not given enough credit for connecting jumps. A skater must maintain great speed and balance in order to successfully compete jump sequences with a half loop. If the first jump of is even off a little bit, the entire jump sequence is bound to collapse. I've seen just as many skater fail doing half-loop jump sequences as those who do combinations.
    I compleatly agree.

  3. #3
    Landing my axel..............again skatergirl45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    333
    I have done half loops in my programs for quite some time.
    They are really a whole loop landed on the other foot.
    I know many people who take them out because originality is not awarded. I had a friend who used to do flip-half loop-double sal but changed it to double sal-toe loop because the judges did not seem to get it,
    The first combination was much harder and no one else did it. Many, many people do double sal toe loops.

    Sequences should get more value. They are often harder than combos. Also, that should be factored in to choreography under originality because it is new.

    That is the problem with skating today. Originality and risk taking is not rewarded and it needs to be.

  4. #4
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,351
    Quote Originally Posted by skatergirl45 View Post
    Sequences should get more value. They are often harder than combos. Also, that should be factored in to choreography under originality because it is new.

    That is the problem with skating today. Originality and risk taking is not rewarded and it needs to be.
    I totally agree with both of these points. A 3F+half loop+3S scores 8 points -- exactly the same as a 3t/3T combination.

  5. #5
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    199
    How many T.Toe-T.Toe combos have we seen versus a Triple Flip - h/lp - T.Salchow....

    Last one btw, was done by Joannie Rochette in 2005.

  6. #6
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,896
    I watched one of the intermediate qualifying rounds from one of last year's US regionals on IceNetwork and it seemed that half the girls did some sort of double flip-double salchow sequence (either with half loop or with a few other hops in between).

    Most of them don't do any triples and there are limits on repeating doubles, so that lets them put something other than double toe or double loop at the end of the sequence. But it certainly isn't easier than doing the jumps in isolation.

  7. #7
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Landing a jump on a back inside edge is way more difficult than one's everday landing on a back outside edge. However, it is just a connective move and the second jump takes off quite quickly. It does make this type of combo more dance-like. Maybe up the PCS scores.

  8. #8
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    425
    ITA with the proposal to add a bonus % to jumps done in combination and raise the value of sequences to the base points of the jumps themselves. The half loop is a difficult entry for a salchow or flip, and there is currently no incentive to do a half loop sequence unless the skater has a very consistent triple sal and needs to fit it into a jump pass for more points (e.g. Sasha Cohen).

    Come to think of it, I am a little surprised that skaters haven't been doing a half loop as the setup for a triple salchow by itself. It wouldn't be considered a jump combination or sequence (since there's no listed jump before the half loop and the half loop doesn't count as a jump), but I'd imagine it would count as a difficult entry to the triple salchow and raise the GOE of the 3S as a result. But if it isn't being done, that's probably because it's *difficult*.

  9. #9
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    425
    The first time I witnessed someone do this was Midori at the 88 Oly. I was amazed that someone could pull off a triple salcow after a half-loop preceded by a double axel.

    Tara and Joannie are the only two ladies I can think of who can do that crazy toe-half loop-salcow combination (and at the end of the program no less).

    When ever the ISU meets again they need to treat that kind of sequence with a little more respect.

  10. #10
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterB View Post
    The first time I witnessed someone do this was Midori at the 88 Oly. I was amazed that someone could pull off a triple salcow after a half-loop preceded by a double axel.

    Tara and Joannie are the only two ladies I can think of who can do that crazy toe-half loop-salcow combination (and at the end of the program no less).

    When ever the ISU meets again they need to treat that kind of sequence with a little more respect.
    As a non-fan of Tara, I have to admit, her half loop connextion to two jumps was much more ingratiating than her labored loop by loop.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •