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Thread: Nebelhorn Results

  1. #61
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    Originally posted by Joesitz
    But if you believe in the full faith and trust in the judges, that's ok with me.
    Wouldn't be in this business if I didn't.

  2. #62
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    Speaking of corrupt judges ........here's everyone's favourite, Yuri Balkov, judging with his fancy touch screen at Nebelhorn.

    Thanks to Miezekatze at FSU!


    http://www.miezekatze.net/images/neb...rijudging1.jpg
    Last edited by Norlite; 09-07-2003 at 08:11 PM.

  3. #63
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    Not sure why everyone is in an all-fired snort to know which judge gives which score.

    Gymnastics gives one public score and we (the fans) don't see any individual judge's scores.

    It just blows my mind how, on the basis of just a handful of corrupt officials, people believe ALL judges are corrupt.

    Like Norlite, I *do* have faith in the judges. I've gotten to know many of them during the past 14 years my daughter has skated, and I am sooo impressed with the dedication and love of the sport they demonstrate.

    I have the same respect for judges as I do for kindergarten teachers -- an extremely tough job that you couldn't pay me enough to do. Oh yeah, I forgot -- judges *don't* get paid anyways! Oh, well...

  4. #64
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Lee - No one believes ALL judges are corrupt. That's what you said - no one else.

    Aside from that you do indeed have the right to believe in the full trust of - dare I say, ALL judges. But it is ok for others (like me) to think there are SOME judges I would be very skeptical about. The bottom line is that figure skating and gymnastics are sports based on subjective judging. I know a gymnast judge who said it is subjective but with the constant judging meetings in gymnastics and penalizing guilty judges, the subjectivity is much less than before. Still it will always exist but not as a conspiracy a la SLC.

    Like baseball, some fans like to read about it the next day even though they already know the outcome. In figure skating I like to know more about the judges individually and why all their scores don't match (or certain judges do match). With the new system, I can't.

    Joe

  5. #65
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    Originally posted by Lee


    It just blows my mind how, on the basis of just a handful of corrupt officials, people believe ALL judges are corrupt.

    Like Norlite, I *do* have faith in the judges. I've gotten to know many of them during the past 14 years my daughter has skated, and I am sooo impressed with the dedication and love of the sport they demonstrate.

    I know you are trying to defend the honest (hopefully the majority) of judges here, but I think you are going about it the wrong way. You yourself acknowledge the existance of a handful of corrupt officials. Do you feel the ISU dealt with the corrupt ones appropriately? Do you feel it is all right for judges like Balkov to be on these panels alongside those judges who, as you say, are indeed are dedicated and motivated by love of the sport? I imagine they are insulted by the presence of someone like him.

    IMHO, the fans who want to see the names of the judges and their marks (or whatever all the date is now called) are for the most part, fans who have seen inaction on the part of the ISU in rooting out the corrupt judges and feel they are at the point where they need to decide for themselves. The aura of suspicion has been created adn even fostered by the ISU itself and it is I think, a little naive at this point to feel confident in every single judge. The whole anonymous judging idea is based on not on the idea that messing with the marks is wrong and the judges would never do it , but that it's going to happen so let's just make it harder and less efficient. That is far more insulting to the honest judges than a few fans who would like to have names attached to marks.

    JMHO,

    BA

  6. #66
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    Originally posted by Norlite
    Speaking of corrupt judges ........here's everyone's favourite, Yuri Balkov, judging with his fancy touch screen at Nebelhorn.
    And, from Russia, Alla Shehovtseva -- she just happens to be the wife of Valentin Piseev, the president of the Russian Federation of Figure Skating! Can you spell "c-o-n-f-l-i-c-t- -o-f- -i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t"?

    BTW, I too believe most judges are not corrupt. Furthermore, I do not believe that most judges from the former USSR are corrupt. Therefore, it is rather upsettingto see two judges represented at the first try of the CoP system who are almost certainly biased.

  7. #67
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    Originally posted by Ptichka
    And, from Russia, Alla Shehovtseva -- she just happens to be the wife of Valentin Piseev, the president of the Russian Federation of Figure Skating! Can you spell "c-o-n-f-l-i-c-t- -o-f- -i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t"?
    I actually don't see that as a conflict of interest at all. I would only see a conflict if a skater was related to a judge.
    Most judges are very involved with their federations. They are not strangers off the street, they are qualified volunteers within their NGB, and sit on many commitees within that federation.

  8. #68
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    Thumbs down

    Can anyone give me a satisfactory explanation as to why Yuri Balkov is still a judge? He gets caught with his hands in the cookie jar--CHEATING with another judge, they are trying to show how they're cleaning up the judging scene--yet this piece of turd is still judging. How can we ever believe that true and honest attempts to clean up the judging are in effect when the likes of him are still around? All credibility is lost whenever I see his smarmy face (or, in this case, the back of his head).

  9. #69
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Norlite
    I actually don't see that as a conflict of interest at all. I would only see a conflict if a skater was related to a judge.
    Most judges are very involved with their federations. They are not strangers off the street, they are qualified volunteers within their NGB, and sit on many commitees within that federation.

    But some want to maintain their secrecy at all costs. This will keep them safe from any acusations which may arise. Balkov will enjoy this new protection.

    Joe

  10. #70
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    Originally posted by Norlite
    I actually don't see that as a conflict of interest at all. I would only see a conflict if a skater was related to a judge.
    Most judges are very involved with their federations. They are not strangers off the street, they are qualified volunteers within their NGB, and sit on many commitees within that federation.
    I think this is a big problem. The way the system operates, all of the judges are beholden to their national federations for their assignments. The national federations, in turn, have as their primary objective the promotion of the fortunes of skaters from their own countries -- that's what national means. So the judges are automatically under pressure to see the contests that they are judging in terms of "our skaters" and "their skaters."

    Hence we get a situation like Salt Lake City, where without revealing any details, the French judge said that she felt "pressure" from the head of the French figure skating association to act in a way that gave the best advatage to the French team.

    We will never be without favoritism, whether based of nationality or whatever. But the idea being pushed by the World Skating Federation and others, that judges should be hired (and paid!) by the ISU based on objective criteria separate from the favor of the natonal federations, is a good one, IMHO.

    Mathman

  11. #71
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    Originally posted by Mathman
    But the idea being pushed by the World Skating Federation and others, that judges should be hired (and paid!) by the ISU based on objective criteria separate from the favor of the natonal federations, is a good one, IMHO.
    Then you must be particularly pleased with the new Technical officials (Controller, Speciallist, [color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color]'t Specialist) that is now in use with the CoP, Mathman. These positions are paid employees of the ISU. There is a suspicion among some fans that this is Cinquanta's way of getting around federations objections to having judges paid employees of the ISU,( which by the way, is not a WSF idea, Speedy has been trying to implement this for a while now. ) The most ardent anti-ISU fans are all up in arms that now the ISU *has* paid employees on the judging panel, with all the control issues that that implies. Most of these anti-ISU fans believe having the judges belonging to the federations is preferable to having them belong to Speedy.

    It's a tough issue, one that I haven't really made up my own mind about.
    Last edited by Norlite; 09-08-2003 at 11:58 AM.

  12. #72
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    Points value

    I was just looking at the protocol, and as a former skater there is no way a 3lutz+3toe should get more points than a 3axel. The 3axel is way harder.
    Nicholas's 3f+3t got 10.1 and Scott's 4s+2t got a 9.8 as base marks? I think that is very wrong.
    Tell me i'm reading this wrong.

  13. #73
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    Norlite, you do have some good points. However, I think it is prefereable to have them being Speedy's employees. This is how I look at it: this way, you only have one mess to clear up (ISU). As it is now, you have to trust that EVERY ONE of the federations is not corrupt.

  14. #74
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    Well, like I said, I haven't made up my own mind. But I will say this. Whether or not I feel that judges are better off with their feds as volunteers or with the ISU as employees, has nothing to do with corruption as it has to do with what is in the best interest of the judges.

  15. #75
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    maybe this is a dumb question, but why are they not useing it at worlds yet?

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