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Thread: Nebelhorn Results

  1. #91
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    No, that was Joe Inman. And it is wonderful for him to try and help everyone understand this new judging system.

    It is not a *secret* you know.

    Seriously.
    Last edited by Norlite; 09-08-2003 at 09:39 PM.

  2. #92
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    thanks for clearing that.

  3. #93
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    while we still at the subject...

    So the federations pays the judge, what do they get in return from the ISU? Money. There gotta be some agreement between the federations and the ISU.

    what stops the ISU from hiring their own judges rather than going through the federations. They are sort of doing it now with the Caller, Tech Specialist etc. Why not go all the way and pay judges.

  4. #94
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    Judges are not paid. They are volunteers as are all skating people (club level right up to federation boards), with the exception of office staff, and coaches.

    They do, of course, get all their expenses paid while working, but they all have day jobs too.

    For the ISU to "hire it's own judges" it would take an amendment to the rulebook voted on by the membership (federations) at a Congress, and the federations are not willing to do that, at this time.

  5. #95
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    More numbers for Mathman-

    I just noticed they have now added (Sept. 7th) each judges individual scores for each skater. (without identifying the judge of course. )

  6. #96
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    This is me, salivating. Boyoboyoboyoboy! This will keep me entertained for weeks. I will have to write to the ISU and tell them to stop giving us so much information about the judging!

    Oh, where to begin, where to begin? I think I'll start with a correlation study to measure the amount of agreement or disagreement among the judges with respect to the bonus marks for individual elements.

    Wowser! We could ask for nothing more, except to identify the judges by name and country.

    Hehehehehehehehehehe.

    Mathman

  7. #97
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    Mathman - I love your point for a correlation study between the judges. Do you think THAT kind of information will be given out by the new system?

    If honesty is there, this system isn't as bad as I make it and it will be workable, particularly for the technical moves in figure skating. The skater will get credit for what s/he does.

    I would just like to see how much credit each judge gave so and so for his/her triple axel. I doubt those grades will all be the same, and as we all know it doesn't take more than one tenth of a point to decide a winner.

    Joe

  8. #98
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    Originally posted by Joesitz
    I would just like to see how much credit each judge gave so and so for his/her triple axel. I doubt those grades will all be the same, and as we all know it doesn't take more than one tenth of a point to decide a winner.
    Well it's there, judge by judge.

  9. #99
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    I just looked at Men's SP and LP scores, and it seems to me that the judges are relatively consistent in scoring executed planned jumps and some of the spins. They seem to be inconsistent when scoring a missed jump -- 2Lutz, 1 Axel -- but I'm not sure if that's for under-rotation, popped, or a combination of both. I think that the ISU will need to come up with a consistent standard for scoring the over-/under-rotated jumps. It's possible that some judges are taking it out of the GOE (double whammy), and some are expecting the devaluation by the caller -- i.e. from 3L to 2L -- to take care of it. Also, there seem to be variations in the CCoSp scoring more than some other spins. For the program elements, while most judges are relatively consistent among elements, they can be pretty far apart from each other, by 3 or more points on occasion. Sounds like more seminars to me.

  10. #100
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    Hockeyfan - Very interested in seeing more detailed results. I did see the results from the USFSA which showed the breakdwown of the components for each skater but nothing about the breakdown from each judge for each skater. So could you give me a link to see the breakdown?

    I can understand the problem with a missed jump. Should the judge take off for the failure or should the Caller? That would be something that needs ironing out.

    I hope this gets ironed out before we sit in Dortmund in deep discussion. In the meantime, I'll go with your suggestion of seminars.

    Joe

  11. #101
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    Originally posted by hockeyfan228
    I think that the ISU will need to come up with a consistent standard for scoring the over-/under-rotated jumps. It's possible that some judges are taking it out of the GOE (double whammy), and some are expecting the devaluation by the caller -- i.e. from 3L to 2L -- to take care of it. Also, there seem to be variations in the CCoSp scoring more than some other spins. For the program elements, while most judges are relatively consistent among elements, they can be pretty far apart from each other, by 3 or more points on occasion. Sounds like more seminars to me.
    I totally agree hockeyfan. I was looking earlier at Corwin's flip. It seems that a couple judges were harsh with a -3 on a jump *already* downgraded to a 2F. I would think the -2 would have been suffcient, and I could live with the -1. It's is so hard to say since this competition was not seen. But my understanding is the -3 would be used for a fall, or *major* problems with edge at take off or landing , and rotation, and step out, together. The guide say 3 or more problems of -1.
    Maybe she did, who knows??

    But, for the most part, they do seem mostly consistent.

    Mathman- don't forget in your correlations, the 2 highest and 2 lowest scores are thrown out.
    Last edited by Norlite; 09-09-2003 at 05:51 PM.

  12. #102
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    Norlite, what you say makes sense. I mean, it would make sense if it were a -3 on the 3F, but not on a downgraded jump. Does seem like judges and caller were not fully in sink on this.

  13. #103
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    Yes, as it would seem. But, again, we did not see this.

    We will be able to go at it full throttle after Skate America and Skate Canada

  14. #104
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    Joe, here's the link. Click on "Detailed scores" on the right.

    [url]http://www.isufs.org/events/nt03/index.htm[/url]

  15. #105
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    Mathman - Thanks. I took a glance but I'm in a hurry on some personall matters so I couldn't study it. the quick glance did show that the names of the judges for each skater are still in secrecy. Oh well,

    Joe

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