Don't blame me, I'm just copying and pasting from Sasha's own web site. (Maybe she needs to fire her PR team, LOL.)
http://www.sashacohen.com/world.shtml
MM
Don't blame me, I'm just copying and pasting from Sasha's own web site. (Maybe she needs to fire her PR team, LOL.)
http://www.sashacohen.com/world.shtml
MM
Last edited by Mathman; 09-05-2003 at 04:14 PM.
IMO it's not about Fumie, it's about Sasha. She was 3rd after the LP, and they had to explain, why she ended up in fourth, over all. Qualifying rounds was a big part of it, and it's a fact that one group had stronger skaters, than another. They did acknowledge, that Fumie bet Sasha in the SP.Originally posted by Mathman
Sasha had a fabulous year. She seems poised now at the threshold of what we all hope will be an impressive string of podium finishes, honors on and off the ice, and major championships.
About her 2002-2003 season, the only thing that disappointed me was the attitute of "team Sasha" after Worlds. This is a quote from Sasha's official web site, presumably written by her public relations people:
"Sasha finished in fourth place for the second year but almost pulled off an upset when she finished third in the free skate. Based on Fumie Suguri's winning her easier qualifying group and placing ahead of Sasha in the short program, Suguri was awarded the bronze medal."
First, you cannot go into an important competiton with the attitude that it would be an "upset" if you manage to get third place. You are there to WIN!
Second, you cannot blame the skate gods if you have to skate against the top people. If you want to be the best, you have to skate against the best and beat them, not hope to get a "bye."
I hope that her victories, especially in the Grand Prix, will give her the boost of confidence that she needs to take it all the way to the top this year.
Mathman
http://www.fumiesuguri.com/en_snaps/img/19/13s.jpg
They can explain that without dragging in Fumie. People can do the math, SC placed third in QR that was worth 20% etc.......... , Of course they have to acknowledge Fumie beat Sasha at worlds twice in 2 years, it is in the records. Actually, I still don't understand why Sasha placing 3rd in QR has to be explained. She placed 3rd in US nationals.Originally posted by registered
IMO it's not about Fumie, it's about Sasha. She was 3rd after the LP, and they had to explain, why she ended up in fourth, over all. Qualifying rounds was a big part of it, and it's a fact that one group had stronger skaters, than another. They did acknowledge, that Fumie bet Sasha in the SP.
http://www.fumiesuguri.com/en_snaps/img/19/13s.jpg
Last edited by rtureck; 09-05-2003 at 06:26 PM.
Not everybody follow the sport closely and know how the rules work. They've done nothing wrong by mentioning Fumie. And if you're objecting to them "dragging in Fumie," than why would you suggest they need to mention, that Fumie bet Sasha twice in 2 years? First, you're not being consistent here, second it has nothing to do with last year's World's. Besides, I believe Sasha have bet Fumie more than 2 times in the course of the past 2 years.Originally posted by rtureck
They can explain that without dragging in Fumie. People can do the math, SC placed third in QR that was worth 20% etc.......... , Of course they have to acknowledge Fumie beat Sasha at worlds twice in 2 years, it is in the records.
I did not suggest that they acknowledge Fumie beating Sasha at worlds in Sasha's website.Originally posted by registered
Not everybody follow the sport closely and know how the rules work. They've done nothing wrong by mentioning Fumie. And if you're objecting to them "dragging in Fumie," than why would you suggest they need to mention, that Fumie bet Sasha twice in 2 years? First, you're not being consistent here, second it has nothing to do with last year's World's. Besides, I believe Sasha have bet Fumie more than 2 times in the course of the past 2 years.
My exact words were. "Of course they have to acknowledge Fumie beat Sasha at worlds twice in 2 years, it is in the records. "
What I meant was in response to your "They acknowledged Fumie beat Sasha (therefore it is OK for them to drag in Fumie)"
My thinking was, since they dragged in Fumie, and (in a small way discredited Fumie), they have to acknowledge the record, and then I said, let the record shows that Fumie beat Sasha 2x at worlds.
Last edited by rtureck; 09-05-2003 at 06:38 PM.
That's your opinion, but not the opinion of the three judges that had the guts to put them ahead of B/A. The USFSA was defenitely sending a message to L&T, and when they finally take it, the USFSA realizes too late "oops, they are one of the few eligible teams for the olympics!" The USFSA just shot themselves in the foot, like they keep doing with Sasha. Over and over again they hype Sasha, and over and over again Sasha falters. I'm not saying it was some conspiracy by putting her review last , that was probably random. But it's true they they do unecessarily hype skaters, and they send "messages" as well.Originally posted by gezando
L&T are the current USA champions, but they were out skated in worlds.
My thinking is, that it's perfectly all right to show, that it was a close rase between Sasha and Fumie at Worlds (during GP series it wasn't so intense). I don't see it as a discredit to Fumie, on the contrary, it shows what a strong skater she is.Originally posted by rtureck
I did not suggest that they acknowledge Fumie beating Sasha at worlds in Sasha's website.
My exact words were. "Of course they have to acknowledge Fumie beat Sasha at worlds twice in 2 years, it is in the records. "
What I meant was in response to your "They acknowledged Fumie beat Sasha (therefore it is OK for them to drag in Fumie)"
My thinking was, since they dragged in Fumie, and (in a small way discredited Fumie), they have to acknowledge the record, and then I said, let the record shows that Fumie beat Sasha 2x at worlds.
Last edited by registered; 09-05-2003 at 08:02 PM.
Fumie also had great improvements during the season. I hope it continues next season!
Sasha did great at GP series and final. My concern? She was lacking the top US competitors. Also, did she go up against Sokolova? (Elena didn't skate well during GP series though, right? I don't remember anything major until Worlds.) To Sasha's credit, she beat Irina at COR. That was a great moment for Sasha. But Irina was weak this season and even Irina felt she let the gave her GP title away.
Good for all girls mentioned. They all skated well, with exception of Irina who did not do so well this year.
Don't forget Sarah who didn't do well at all for an Olympic champion. I think Irina had better results than Sarah did last season.Originally posted by Fossi
Fumie also had great improvements during the season. I hope it continues next season!
Sasha did great at GP series and final. My concern? She was lacking the top US competitors. Also, did she go up against Sokolova? (Elena didn't skate well during GP series though, right? I don't remember anything major until Worlds.) To Sasha's credit, she beat Irina at COR. That was a great moment for Sasha. But Irina was weak this season and even Irina felt she let the gave her GP title away.
Good for all girls mentioned. They all skated well, with exception of Irina who did not do so well this year.
To me it was a discredit to Fumie, if they hint at Fumie won by being in the easier qualifying roundOriginally posted by registered
My thinking is, that it's perfectly all right to show, that it was a close rase between Sasha and Fumie at Worlds (during GP series it wasn't so intense). I don't see it as a discredit to Fumie, on the contrary, it shows what a strong skater she is.
Well, I think they said easier qualifying round because Michelle and Elena were in it!But it was kind of rude. It's funny, since they're managed by the same company...
Hey, Sarah's my favorite, so of course I won't comment.Originally posted by lavender
Don't forget Sarah who didn't do well at all for an Olympic champion. I think Irina had better results than Sarah did last season.But I agree and disagree with Lavenders post. Sarah didn't have a great season, but she was injured. Well, was she injured, or wasn't she? I know the story changes (have heard it all
) However, what past Olympic champion are we comparing Sarah's season to? It has been a few Olympics since an Olympic champion returned to competition. I think Sarah did well enough for Sarah. I am proud of what she did. But you're right. Her season was disappointing to many. Not to me though. I love skating for different reasons. I am glad she went out there, competed, and did what was her best for that time. I am also happy that Sasha landed her first 7 triple performance, and her 3/3
I am glad that Fumie came back strong and medalled. I am happy for Elena's comeback, and lastly I am glad that Michelle Kwan keeps coming back stronger and stronger. But overall I love watching the "lower ranked" skaters get so excited when they do better than they expected. I just love skating.
I agree with SkatingFan5 and Yazmeen that the order of the USFSA season reviews has nothing to do with "hyping" one skater over another. Someone said, "The USFSA keep hyping Sasha over and over and over and over she doesn't deliver." Someone else said, "They were just waiting to crown [Sasha] at Nationals." First of all, Sasha has delivered plenty. In her eight competitions of the '02-03 season, she won four golds, one silver, one bronze, and two pewter medals (the last being her fourth place finishes at Campbell's and Worlds). Also, I don't understand why rtureck is being so sensitive about Fumie. Sasha and Fumie have been one place apart at several major competitions over the past two years. When two skaters are close like that on the international circuit, it's common to compare them.
As for saying Fumie's qualifying group was the easier won was an insult to Fumie, well, geez, when one Q group has the four-time World champion, the Olympic champion, last year's fourth place finisher at Worlds, and, just by chance, the super 3/3 train Sokolva became by the end of the season and the other Q group has the World bronze medalist as its top contender, I think it's just common sense to look at the two groups and say that the latter group is easier. At the time of Worlds and the Q rounds, people certainly talked about this discrepency a lot. I think the USFSA, Sasha's site, and other writers are linking Fumie and Sasha the way they did and do Michelle and Irina. Some people feel Irina still is not in the same league with Michelle and that's their prerogative. But to expect the USFSA, fan sites, and the press to say, "Well, really we know Fumie is a much better skater than she's given credit for" is doing the same thing people say these writers are doing to Sasha: hyping her. These people are going by the competition results, not by which skater they think is better technically.
Regarding what's written on Sasha's fan site, what do people expect? Of COURSE they're going to gush over Sasha and spin things positively for her. That's what fan sites do. Other skaters' sites may do it differently, but the site is there to please that skaters' fans, not to please people who are not fans of that skater. I think Sasha's PR people are doing just what they should be doing. They say great things about Sasha and the quotes from Sasha are "humble" as in, "I could have done better" "I'll work harder next year" things like that. Typical PR. Nothing more, nothing less.
Same for the USFSA review. If there was a sense of "hyping" Sasha for Nationals, I think it was only because Michelle and Sarah were "out of sight, out of mind" because they didn't compete much the previous fall. Also, I think Michelle came into the '02-03 season with conflicting expectations. On the one hand, she did not skate up to expectations at the Olympics or '02 Worlds. She had been coachless for a year and then prior to Campbell's, announced that Scott Williams would be her new coach, someone who had never coached much at all before, much less coached a skater the calibre of Michelle. Michelle's performance at Campbelle's was judged unevenly. She received three first place ordinals to win, but also received a fourth and a fifth place ordinal. At Skate America, her new SP was stunning, but her LP was hot and cold technically and some felt choreographically it looked unfinished. So that was the impression of Michelle the press had going into Nationals. It's easy in hindsight to say, "We always knew Michelle would be spectacular" but in fact we didn't -- by "we" I mean the media and neutral fans. If you looked at Michelle's skating at the end of the '02 season and the first two events in fall of '02, not knowing what was to come, if I were a sportswriter, I too would have held back on being certain that Michelle would win another Nationals and Worlds.
A similar thing happened with Sarah. Although her Olympic skate was spectacular, we only saw her skate at Campbell's and Crest Whitestrips. At Campbell's she landed three clean triples to finish third, but she had ordinals ranging from first to fifth. At Crest WS, she landed five triples and finished second. Sarah had also gained weight since the Olympics and so did not look as if she was in "fightiing shape" for Nationals and Worlds. Again, these are the impressions the press, the general public, and the USFSA had of Michelle and Sarah prior to Nationals.
Contrast that with the impressions Sasha left. A strong second at '02 Nationals; a credible job for her first international competition at the Olympics with fourth; a somewhat disappointing but still strong fourth place finish at '02 Worlds; a crummy Campbells, though she did complete a 3-.5-3 series; and then a momentum building GP series--two golds and a very close silver at COR; and another gold at Crest WS. Just looking at the trend with Sasha--better, better, better--it's no surprise that she was favored to win US Nationals, especially with the "out of sight, out of mind" factor working against Michelle and Sarah, not to mention the unknown factor of Michelle's coaching change, her late commitment to Nationals and Worlds, and again not only losing the OGM, but having to settle for bronze. I think the press legitimately wondered if that second OGM loss would leave Michelle uninspired for the following season, and also wondered what the heck would happen with Scott Williams as her coach.
Again, with 20/20 hindsight, it seems as if there was a preplanned, "WE WANT SASHA!" bias for Nationals from the beginning of the season among the press and USFSA. But the way I see it, I think people were simply analyzing what they had to go on and with Michelle and Sarah it was a little positive, some negative, but mostly unknown. With Sasha, she was going into '03 Nationals with three gold medals and a silver between Oct. and Dec. '02. It's like betting on horses: People look at the stats.
So I don't think they (whomever "they" are) "couldn't wait to crown Sasha" at Nationals. I think people were doing what people do; looking at the record, and wanting to be right so they can say, "I told you so." Yes, I realize many, many of Michelle's fans were saying, "Just wait. Never count out Michelle." But I'm talking about the supposedly objective press and the USFSA. Of course we know things did not go at all well for Sasha at Nationals, with that event probably being her worst of the season. But as someone said, Skaters are either submit to the pressure or stare it down and succeed. Sasha did the former. Some say she was held up at Nationals and that is possible. But given her GP record, Sasha is the skater I would have wanted on the World team and I think she skated well enough at Nationals to earn the bronze. Had AP made it to her GP events and done well it might have been a different story. But we'll never know.
The point is, I think this notion of "hype" and Sasha is no different than it's been for every other skater who has skated well international competitions prior to Nationals. Nancy Kerrigan was "hyped" going into the '94 Olympics even though she had finished fifth at '93 Worlds because all during the fall of '93, Nancy had both trimmed down and was skating very, very well. Forgetting the "whack" for a moment, if you didn't like Nancy's skating, you could say, "She was only fifth at Worlds! This is nothing but favoritism and hype!" If you liked Nancy's skating, you could say, "That fifth place finish was a fluke. She learned from it and has since pulled it all together. This is not hype; she deserves to be the favorite!"
And so it goes. Also note that the USFSA partner is ABC News, so I don't think just the USFSA's opinions are reflected in these reviews. Also note that it is in the USFSA's best interest to promote ALL their top skaters. You never know where the next phenomenal skater is going to come from. Plus, the USFSA is also interested in promoting its whole TEAM.
As for the order of the USFSA season reviews, I think all this stuff about putting Sasha's review last as a way of promoting her is BAH-loney. The USFSA has more reason to expect another National and World title from Michelle than Sasha. Sasha's never been on the World podium. As for Sarah, all indications have been that she's essentially done with competing, at least for the time being, and putting most of her energy into school. Sarah had an erratic season and the review reflected it. People can read it at:
http://www.usfsa.org/news/2002-03/hughes-recap.htm
Besides, I think what is most important is what is said in the reviews, not the order. Let's look at some quotes from Michelle's review, all of which you can read at:
http://www.usfsa.org/news/2002-03/kwan-recap.htm
The lede in Michelle's review is:
"Michelle Kwan. She's cemented her place in skating history ... and she's not even done yet. She approached the 2002-03 season on her own terms, and those terms resulted in a perfect season."
"Her results have been phenomenal, and this year was no different."
"[Kwan] was enjoying herself, keeping the pressure at bay and simply taking it one day at a time. It was a new approach for her, but by the end of the season it proved to be a magical potion for her success."
"Early in the season, she still had not committed to either the U.S. or World Championships ... who knew what was actually to come?" (Rgirl obnoxiously trying to validate her earlier arguments about hype)
"It was clear after the performance [of her new SP at Skate America] that Kwan had transcended her Olympic disappointments and had moved on to a new outlook; she was totally at ease with herself and her skating."
"Kwan made her decision and was ready to compete at the 2003 State Farm U.S. Championships in Dallas. And oh what a decision it was! Kwan proved she was still the dominant skater in the U.S. by streaking through two magnificent performances en route to her seventh U.S. title."
"She took the audience with her on two amazing rides, bringing the audience to its feet during the final moments of her "Aranjuez" free skate. She earned mostly 5.9s for presentation, including one 6.0 to hold off strong challenges from Sarah Hughes and Sasha Cohen." [Remember, whole team.]
"For someone who wasn't sure what she wanted to do at the beginning of the year, Kwan was positive she knew what she wanted by the end of the year — her fifth World title. Not surprisingly that's exactly what she got."
"It didn't matter if Kwan didn't have any words to describe her achievements. Plenty of others filled in the blanks — extraordinary, breathtaking, stunning ... the list goes on. Before the competition there was much talk about the technical elements — especially the triple-triples that many ladies had planned for their programs. Kwan did not have any triple-triples planned, but she did have two key component that athletes prize — consistency and confidence. With those two skills intact, and wonderful artistry and footwork, Kwan took home the top prize again at the World Championships, earning three 6.0s overall in the process."
"Kwan capped her season with a victory at the ABC Sports International Figure Skating Challenge, defeating the same top contenders she faced at Worlds. Then it was off to the Chevy Champions on Ice Tour, where Kwan skated in every performance."
"How do you top a perfect 5-0 season? Well, one way is to watch the awards and accolades roll in! Kwan deservedly received her fair share of honors during the 2002-03 season, including:
* USOC Female Athlete of the Month — January and March
* Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Award for Favorite Female Athlete
* 2002-03 SKATING magazine Readers' Choice Award for Skater of the Year"
"Kwan said it all while thanking those who have been involved in her success over the past years. The occasion? The five-time World champion was honored for a 'Decade of Brilliance' at the Gold Medal Gala Banquet during the 2003 Governing Council in Norfolk, Va."
"It was an opportunity for the skating world and the USFSA to say 'thank you' and honor Kwan for not only a spectacular career so far, but also for whatever titles and awards she will receive in the coming years!" [Underline by Rgirl.]
I'd say that's a pretty resounding endorsement of Michelle both for what she's accomplished and clearly for what the USFSA and the media expect her to accomplish in the future. So any of this "Put the worst first" stuff is crappola, IMO. The way I read the three reviews, Sasha's put her up and down season into perspective, but there was nothing about what to expect from Sasha in the future. The review ends with Cohen's third place finish behind Kwan and Suguri at the ABC Sports International Figure Skating Challenge. The last line of the review is "After touring with Champions on Ice, Cohen is training hard for the season, which includes an appearance at Smart Ones Skate America."
No ringing endorsement there. No "hype" that I can see. Just straightforward journalism. Nothing like the accolades Michelle got, and deservedly so, for this season and the expectations of more seasons like this one.
As for Sarah, near the end of her review it says, "Hughes is now moving on to a different stage in her life. She announced in April that she would be attending Yale University this fall, and it's unclear where skating will fit into her new schedule." There's a bit more about the awards she's received since winning the Olympics and about how the Olympics have changed Sarah's life. Again, pretty much "just the facts, ma'am" writing.
If there is hype in any of these reviews it's for Michelle and as I said, deservedly so. Very well deserved. So I just don't see where all this emphasis on the "Sasha hype" is coming from. Sure, it's on her fansite. Duh. But I think a lot of the talk about too much Sasha hype is hype. I think the media and the USFSA have been fair and accurate in their coverage of Michelle, Sarah, and Sasha. And that's the way I like it.
Rgirl
Great post, RGirl!
One correction thought, in the 2002-2003 season Sasha competed 10 times, and won 5 gold medals.
I really believe that this topic is about a review of Sasha's skating performances last season. there is no need to compare her with other skaters. The reader should be discussing her strengths and her faults and then give an overall conclusion.
IMO, Sasha had a good last season. As you know I am not looking for teenage Oly wunderkind. there is no reason for her not to be better in the upcoming season. It won't be easy, she has formidable competitors but, then, so is Sasha competitive.
Joe
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