Good Skaters with Bad choreography | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Good Skaters with Bad choreography

Ogre Mage

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Good skaters/bad choreography

In the past I would have said Sasha Cohen, but I acutally like the work she did with Tarasova last year. Malaguena was perhaps the first time I glimpsed at what she might be capable of. The program did a great job of highlighting Sasha's strengths. Her free skate wasn't as good, but most skaters struggle with the choreography of LPs because you have to put in so many jumps.

Carolina Kostner would get my vote. I was very impressed with her basic skating at worlds -- strong stroking, good edges and excellent speed. She maintains a lovely flow and has a nice spring to her jumps. But by the 2:30 mark in her LP, her program was putting me to sleep. She needs some serious polish to her choreography and overall presentation.

Many would disagree, but Irina is another one. Again, very strong basic skating and powerful jumps but too many of her programs seem like the skating equivalent of overblown screech opera.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
In my opinion Plushenko is a very charismatic skater and great both technically and presentationwise, but the choreography.... I still cannot understand what Mishin was thinking in the Olympic season with that strange programme idea they were planning first (didn´t Plushy even skate to it somewhere?). An Olympic season, the most important season of all, and the Plushenko team did not manage to make a better selection at once.

Irina S. - I think that in many years her music and choreography have not fitted her person.


Marjaana
 
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astimegoesby

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
The first two skaters that came to my mind when I read this thread topic were Evgeny Plushenko and Elena Sokolova. IIRC, Evgeny did change choreographers last season, but IMO, his LP from this season was even more boring than the stuff Mishin created for him. It's such a shame because I think Evgeny has a lot more charisma on the ice that his competitive programs just won't let him show. His exhibition programs (Sex Bomb, Mr. Lonely, that chicken thing he did a couple of years ago) may not have a lot of content, but they definitely let Evgeny's personality come out! While his competitive programs are always technically-packed, but lacking in charisma. If only he could find someone who could create a program for him full of technical difficulty and personality...

And as glad as I was to see Elena's comeback this season, I have to say the over-the-top dramatic programs she skated this year do not suit her at all. Like Evgeny, she's got a lot of personality and charisma on the ice, but the programs she skated last year just can't bring that out. I'd like to see Elena skate to something a little more light-hearted next season...something that'll let that beautiful smile of hers come out more often. :)

As for Takeshi, I think the best thing he can do is go back to his old choreographer(s)! He (or his choreographer) took out a lot of the great in-between stuff in both of Takeshi's LPs from last season and I was really disappointed. I'm particularily disappointed Kurt wasn't able to help choreograph Takeshi's Riverdance program as well as Takeshi's LP--there was a lot of potential for some awesome footwork sequences in that program which, sadly, didn't get used. :(
 

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Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Urmanov, definitely, an elegant skater with often very "odd" routines.......I also felt that Ina and Dunjeon (sp) could have had better choreography and musical selections.......

In fairness to Michelle and any skater who has been in the public eye (more than ten years), their routines do seem repetitive after awhile because they've BEEN around for a while. I felt the same for one of my fav's, Paul Wylie. His routines were very much the same, just used different music..........42
 

BronzeisGolden

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
The first skater I thought of was Elena Sokolova. She's a competent technician and has a lot of natural spunk that is waiting to be fully tapped into. I thought her "Samson and Delilah" SP was great last year. Although I didn't like ALL of the choreography, it was mainly a pleasing program and she really skated it with a lot of spirit at the 2003 Worlds. So, in that case, the choreography worked for me. As for her long program, it didn't. The music was too heavy and the choreography was very sparse and didn't quite fit. I'd love to see her improve her spiral and layback, enlist a new choreographer and stick with the upbeat music. She would then be a giant threat for the gold.

Irina's choreography bothers me at times. I thought her programs from the Olympic year were better (the SP was wonderful), but I'd still enjoy seeing her try something different.

As for Michelle, I'm also glad she got rid of Lori. Nichol is a wonderful choreographer and gave Michelle some great moments, but it was time for a change. Michelle has been in the game for so long she had to look for new challenges. "TFB" was a huge step in the right direction. "Aranjuez" less so, but still a big cut above anything since "Lyra"(for me anyway). LOL, but to tell you the truth, I could care if she changes. As long as she skates with emotion and maintains the elegant precision she demonstrated last season, she could rehash every program she's ever done from now on and I'd be glued to the television.
 

PrincessLeppard

~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~
Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
For the record, Mishin has never choreographed Evgeni's programs. I don't
know why everyone thinks "amateurs" do it; he has always had professional
choreographers. If you don't like it, that's fine, but these people are not
"amateurs." This year, one of the main choreographers for the Kirov ballet
did his programs.

I knew Evgeni was going to get clobbered. Yes, I would love to see more
personality come through in his programs, that's why Carmen and Once
Upon a Time in America are two of my favorites, he gets to show some
charisma. I did like Adadio, though, and St. Petersburg 300. But he could
work with the "best" (whoever that might be) choreographer, and there
would still be some people whining.

Must agree that Mike Weiss could use a new choreographer, though. In my
opinion. I'm sure someone likes what Lisa's done...

Laura :)



:) :)
 

janetliz

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Jaana said:
In my opinion Plushenko is a very charismatic skater and great both technically and presentationwise, but the choreography.... I still cannot understand what Mishin was thinking in the Olympic season with that strange programme idea they were planning first (didn´t Plushy even skate to it somewhere?).




Marjaana

Yes, he did use that program at the Grand Prix Final.
 

kwanette

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
While Sarah Hughes will never be at the top of my "good skaters" list, there have been choreographic moments in some of her programs...that made me speak to the TV screen..."What was THAT?" and "Why is it there?"

Two examples...the "hunched over move" in the corner of the rink from her OLY sp...I could never understand why Robin would include a move that accentuated someone with rounded shoulders to begin with...

The butt-slaps in this year's program made me LOL!! They were toned down to a gentle massage, thankfully, by Worlds.

Lest someone think I am bashing my least favorite skater, I actually liked the choreography in La Bayedere...just not on Sarah.

I think Plushenko is a brilliant skater...but those Urmanov chicken-moves have to go.

I actually think Tim Goebel has some of the best choreographed programs among the elite male skaters. While his Oly lp may have suited a skater like Kurt Browning a bit more, but the time I saw it at Worlds this year, there was a danceability" to his performance...I can't believe that I am actually saying this...and he was terrific with it.
 

Panther2000

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
berthes ghost said:
All I can say is that anyone who finds Plushy's choreo "origional" must have never seen Urmanov skate. I find Plushy's package about as origional as a Disney plot. Fresh as day old bread IMHO.

I will give you a big AHMEN on that one. But, My take on that is the MISHIN factor. Plush in my opinion is a much better skater than Urmanov. Remember, Yags had those funky Programs also. Thank God what happend happen & he moved to TT. He became an all round Skater. Not just a jumper. Its the Mishin Factor.
 

curious

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
I supposed you think Yags would have done better with Plush's choreo or won so many titles. The fact is Plush can do with the not so good choreo Mishin gives him what no other skater can. A truly gifted skater.:D
 

curious

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
I supposed you think Yags would have done better with Plush's choreo or won so many titles. The fact is Plush can do with the not so good choreo Mishin gives him what no other skater can. A truly gifted skater.:D
 

Panther2000

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
What?, I don't get it. How many more World Titles could have Yags won. He has 4, Regular Competition Titles, I can't even begin to count them over the years. Olympic Title, No Way that Michael Jackson program was near WINTER. I don't get the question.:( But, I did say before that plush is a talented skater. & I doubt if anyone other skateroutside of Plush or Yagudin could have won with those programs. The other skaters lack their talent
I liked most of Yags programs just the way the are/were. Regardless Yags still won with the programs when he was with Mishin. I just did not care too much for those. He was a jumper then. Very Little artistic flare at that time.
 

Summer of Love

Spectator
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
But many people say Plushenko is still great despite those odd "Mishin" choreographies and Yagudin is just great because of Tarasovas masterful, "matching" choreographies, which means Plushenko is truly natural talented, Yagudin not?
 
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diamondqueen

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Good Skaters with bd choreography

Sasah Cohen, same thing all the time. Never any thing different from one year to the next.

Irina, bad choreography from start to finish. Way to much arm movement and very poor persentation.
 

PrincessLeppard

~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~
Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
the footwork in Evgeni's Michael Jackson LP was some of the most difficult ever done. Yes, Alexei's Winter footwork was also difficult, but not to the degree of MJ.

But people....PLEASE PAY ATTENTION. Mishin doesn't choreograph the programs!!!! And I've only seen Evgeni do the chicken move once (I don't like it either), so it's not like it's a staple or anything (and the crowd at Kitchner went nuts when he did it...)

Laura :)
 

Kwanisqueen81

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
boggartlaura said:
Cupcake's choreography at worlds, especially her lp's, was awful.

I agree!! That Long program at worlds was in one word: awful. I do however love,love, love her short program because it really shows her strenghs. Also Cohen's Carmen program never really came together except at the GoodWill games. That was IMHO the best performance of that program even with the twofooted 3-3. She keep changing the ending footwork and the program was horrible cherographed. I really hope Cohen revisits Carman becasue she has the potential to put Kat. Witt's version to shame(and we all know I consider Kat Witt to have the BEST Carmen program EVER)
 

curious

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Yes,I know what some people would love to see happen with Plush,but I'm not going there:D I see nothing of Urmanov in Plush except his elegance and presence on the ice.
 

Lisa

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Plush - Urmanov - Mishin

Just my two cents:

Mishin doesn't create the choreographies of his skaters himself, granted. But then, how come that there are similarities between Urmanov's and Plushenko's programs? (It's a true question, not an attempt to bash or critisize or whatever .... )
To me, it sounds more like a cooperation between choreographer and coach - but this is just a guess of mine.
 

Lisa

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Summer of Love said:
But many people say Plushenko is still great despite those odd "Mishin" choreographies and Yagudin is just great because of Tarasovas masterful, "matching" choreographies, which means Plushenko is truly natural talented, Yagudin not?

:D I know some fans who would totally agree with you! ;)

Both Yags and Plushenko are excellent technical skaters, thanks to Mishin btw. Their personnalities and skating styles are different, though. I would describe Yags as being powerful and passionate and Plushenko as being elegant and impish (just my opinion, feel free to disagree).
TT is a master in recognizing a skater's personnality, she is able to choreograph masterpieces according to what she sees in her students. Her programs made Yags win a lot of titles - but don't forget that he won the first "despite those odd "Mishin" choreographies" (as you put it ;)) back in 1998.
If this theory about Plush winning only because of his natural talent and in spite of Mishin choreographies (remember he is only the coach) was true, then Plush would be the first Mishin student ever to win a World Championship. Which is not the case, far from that.
 
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