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Thread: Good Skaters with Bad choreography

  1. #16
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    I don't think Sasha Cohen needs another choreographer, but in my book, classical music like the one she used last season is not exactly her style. My first reaction was like: TT wanted her to prove that she can do it, in order to make her obtain Gold in the long run (because I believe that a skater should be able to skate to different kinds of music if he/she wants to be the World's best skater). I can only hope I'm right. Swan Lake for this season, is that correct? Modern version, maybe??????

    A definite yes as far as Sasha Abt is concerned! His "Bolero" was - especially the costume, btw. It was even more awful life than on tv!

  2. #17
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    What is a modern version of swan lake, like the modern version of Beethoven's 5th?

  3. #18
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
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    Shizuka Arakawa's Swan Lake was kind of a modern and poppy version.

    Actually Tatiana Tarosova didn't have anything to do with choosing Rachmaninoff No. 2. According to Morosov, Sasha already had her SP and LP choreographed before she made the move to TT.

  4. #19
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    Yup. Morozov made the two programs for Sasha before she decided to train with TT full time.

    I noticed a couple of posters praised MK's This Time Around. Well, it's actually my least favorite MK programs. The spirals are great, as always, but there's not one single original move in the whole program. I enjoyed her earlier exhibition programs a lot more (EOE, Dante's Prayers and "Message in the Bottle"). There seems to be a lot more genuine feelings and orginial moves in those programs. I'm glad she decided to dump Lori after that season.

  5. #20
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    ooops, that has sort of slipped my mind, thanks guys!

    Like a modern version of Beethoven, yes, or if you look at "Nutcracker" and "Revolution Etude" - this is what I mean.

  6. #21
    Custom Title Ogre Mage's Avatar
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    Good skaters/bad choreography

    In the past I would have said Sasha Cohen, but I acutally like the work she did with Tarasova last year. Malaguena was perhaps the first time I glimpsed at what she might be capable of. The program did a great job of highlighting Sasha's strengths. Her free skate wasn't as good, but most skaters struggle with the choreography of LPs because you have to put in so many jumps.

    Carolina Kostner would get my vote. I was very impressed with her basic skating at worlds -- strong stroking, good edges and excellent speed. She maintains a lovely flow and has a nice spring to her jumps. But by the 2:30 mark in her LP, her program was putting me to sleep. She needs some serious polish to her choreography and overall presentation.

    Many would disagree, but Irina is another one. Again, very strong basic skating and powerful jumps but too many of her programs seem like the skating equivalent of overblown screech opera.

  7. #22
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    In my opinion Plushenko is a very charismatic skater and great both technically and presentationwise, but the choreography.... I still cannot understand what Mishin was thinking in the Olympic season with that strange programme idea they were planning first (didn´t Plushy even skate to it somewhere?). An Olympic season, the most important season of all, and the Plushenko team did not manage to make a better selection at once.

    Irina S. - I think that in many years her music and choreography have not fitted her person.


    Marjaana
    Last edited by Jaana; 09-06-2003 at 04:53 AM.

  8. #23
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    The first two skaters that came to my mind when I read this thread topic were Evgeny Plushenko and Elena Sokolova. IIRC, Evgeny did change choreographers last season, but IMO, his LP from this season was even more boring than the stuff Mishin created for him. It's such a shame because I think Evgeny has a lot more charisma on the ice that his competitive programs just won't let him show. His exhibition programs (Sex Bomb, Mr. Lonely, that chicken thing he did a couple of years ago) may not have a lot of content, but they definitely let Evgeny's personality come out! While his competitive programs are always technically-packed, but lacking in charisma. If only he could find someone who could create a program for him full of technical difficulty and personality...

    And as glad as I was to see Elena's comeback this season, I have to say the over-the-top dramatic programs she skated this year do not suit her at all. Like Evgeny, she's got a lot of personality and charisma on the ice, but the programs she skated last year just can't bring that out. I'd like to see Elena skate to something a little more light-hearted next season...something that'll let that beautiful smile of hers come out more often.

    As for Takeshi, I think the best thing he can do is go back to his old choreographer(s)! He (or his choreographer) took out a lot of the great in-between stuff in both of Takeshi's LPs from last season and I was really disappointed. I'm particularily disappointed Kurt wasn't able to help choreograph Takeshi's Riverdance program as well as Takeshi's LP--there was a lot of potential for some awesome footwork sequences in that program which, sadly, didn't get used. :(

  9. #24
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Urmanov, definitely, an elegant skater with often very "odd" routines.......I also felt that Ina and Dunjeon (sp) could have had better choreography and musical selections.......

    In fairness to Michelle and any skater who has been in the public eye (more than ten years), their routines do seem repetitive after awhile because they've BEEN around for a while. I felt the same for one of my fav's, Paul Wylie. His routines were very much the same, just used different music..........42

  10. #25
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    The first skater I thought of was Elena Sokolova. She's a competent technician and has a lot of natural spunk that is waiting to be fully tapped into. I thought her "Samson and Delilah" SP was great last year. Although I didn't like ALL of the choreography, it was mainly a pleasing program and she really skated it with a lot of spirit at the 2003 Worlds. So, in that case, the choreography worked for me. As for her long program, it didn't. The music was too heavy and the choreography was very sparse and didn't quite fit. I'd love to see her improve her spiral and layback, enlist a new choreographer and stick with the upbeat music. She would then be a giant threat for the gold.

    Irina's choreography bothers me at times. I thought her programs from the Olympic year were better (the SP was wonderful), but I'd still enjoy seeing her try something different.

    As for Michelle, I'm also glad she got rid of Lori. Nichol is a wonderful choreographer and gave Michelle some great moments, but it was time for a change. Michelle has been in the game for so long she had to look for new challenges. "TFB" was a huge step in the right direction. "Aranjuez" less so, but still a big cut above anything since "Lyra"(for me anyway). LOL, but to tell you the truth, I could care if she changes. As long as she skates with emotion and maintains the elegant precision she demonstrated last season, she could rehash every program she's ever done from now on and I'd be glued to the television.

  11. #26
    ~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~
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    For the record, Mishin has never choreographed Evgeni's programs. I don't
    know why everyone thinks "amateurs" do it; he has always had professional
    choreographers. If you don't like it, that's fine, but these people are not
    "amateurs." This year, one of the main choreographers for the Kirov ballet
    did his programs.

    I knew Evgeni was going to get clobbered. Yes, I would love to see more
    personality come through in his programs, that's why Carmen and Once
    Upon a Time in America are two of my favorites, he gets to show some
    charisma. I did like Adadio, though, and St. Petersburg 300. But he could
    work with the "best" (whoever that might be) choreographer, and there
    would still be some people whining.

    Must agree that Mike Weiss could use a new choreographer, though. In my
    opinion. I'm sure someone likes what Lisa's done...

    Laura




  12. #27
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    Originally posted by Jaana
    In my opinion Plushenko is a very charismatic skater and great both technically and presentationwise, but the choreography.... I still cannot understand what Mishin was thinking in the Olympic season with that strange programme idea they were planning first (didn´t Plushy even skate to it somewhere?).




    Marjaana
    Yes, he did use that program at the Grand Prix Final.

  13. #28
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    While Sarah Hughes will never be at the top of my "good skaters" list, there have been choreographic moments in some of her programs...that made me speak to the TV screen..."What was THAT?" and "Why is it there?"

    Two examples...the "hunched over move" in the corner of the rink from her OLY sp...I could never understand why Robin would include a move that accentuated someone with rounded shoulders to begin with...

    The butt-slaps in this year's program made me LOL!! They were toned down to a gentle massage, thankfully, by Worlds.

    Lest someone think I am bashing my least favorite skater, I actually liked the choreography in La Bayedere...just not on Sarah.

    I think Plushenko is a brilliant skater...but those Urmanov chicken-moves have to go.

    I actually think Tim Goebel has some of the best choreographed programs among the elite male skaters. While his Oly lp may have suited a skater like Kurt Browning a bit more, but the time I saw it at Worlds this year, there was a danceability" to his performance...I can't believe that I am actually saying this...and he was terrific with it.

  14. #29
    Alexei he's my MAN Panther2000's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally posted by berthes ghost
    All I can say is that anyone who finds Plushy's choreo "origional" must have never seen Urmanov skate. I find Plushy's package about as origional as a Disney plot. Fresh as day old bread IMHO.
    I will give you a big AHMEN on that one. But, My take on that is the MISHIN factor. Plush in my opinion is a much better skater than Urmanov. Remember, Yags had those funky Programs also. Thank God what happend happen & he moved to TT. He became an all round Skater. Not just a jumper. Its the Mishin Factor.

  15. #30
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    I supposed you think Yags would have done better with Plush's choreo or won so many titles. The fact is Plush can do with the not so good choreo Mishin gives him what no other skater can. A truly gifted skater.:D

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