Ina Bauer questions | Golden Skate

Ina Bauer questions

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
On other threads we have been arguing about Sasha Cohen's edges, about her spiral and about her Lutz. For a change of pace I would like to say something completely non-controversial that I think everyone can agree on: Sasha has the best Ina Bauer in the business.

http://www.sashacohen.com/photos/competitions.gif

(OK, all you Sarah fans -- Sarah has an excellent one, too. :laugh: )

So here are my questions.

1. This move seems to be all about flexibility and extension. What are you supposed to be doing "from the ankles down?" Is it hard to do? Do edges and ice coverage play a role?

2. To me, this move looks just as beautiful and "soul-satisfying" as a well executed spiral. Does the code of points give any credit for this move? We hardly ever see it in a competitive program.

Mathman
 

rtureck

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:

1. This move seems to be all about flexibility and extension. What are you supposed to be doing "from the ankles down?" Is it hard to do? Do edges and ice coverage play a role?

2. To me, this move looks just as beautiful and "soul-satisfying" as a well executed spiral. Does the code of points give any credit for this move? We hardly ever see it in a competitive program.

Mathman

This is a MITF move, so guess what it is about edges again. Yukina Ota and Sasha Cohen may prefer to do it one way with flexibility, some skaters may choose another way to present this move. I have to disagree that Sasha has the best, maybe one of the best in terms of flexibility, why don't you review the junior worlds tape, and pay attention to Yukina's ina. I think Ota's ina covered more ice, and she has equal or maybe even more flexibility.

One of the most touching ina bauer was done by Rudy in his orchestral John Denver Annie's song. Rudy's ina was choreographed to a lengthy phrase of music, it gave us so much emotion, and it lasted for so long and covered HUGE CHUNKS of ice surface.

I believe in COP, spirals and ina receive about the same credit.
Look at Fumie's Sanctus programs, if you watch her live, you will notice that she covers at least 2/3 maybe even 3/4 of the rink.
 
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Norlite

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Yeah, it is an edge move. As is most everything in skating.

Actually, the ina bauer is considered a type of spread eagle, or variation of the spread eagle. There are inside and outside ina bauers, as in spread eagles. The flexibility is only an option, rather like the height of the free leg is in the spiral.

I myself, prefer the very flexible back-over bend, but many people do not.
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
It's not just Cohen's extension and flexibility that make's her Ina Bauer so impressive. I think it's the way she lifts up from her waist before going over and back, slowly, and across half of the length of the rink that causes the shivers, at least for me.
 

registered

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
What makes Sasha's Ina Bauer stand out -- is an arch in her back, legs position (her legs are miles apart), and how long she's able to hold on (in her R&J program Sasha holds her Ina by an entire length of the rink). Too often we see Ina Bauer being held out only for a few second, this move requires a lot of strength and great edges control.

http://www.sashacohen.com/news.shtml
 

Lanie

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, with the Ina Bauer, it takes a lot of control and very strong legs to keep that position; I have a lot trouble with it because my body just doesn't want to let my right leg 'drag' along so I end up curving and I can't hold it for very long. Difficult...but GORGEOUS! I love Sasha's Ina!
 

rtureck

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
shine said:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Hollywood/7387/ladies/ota/02nex3.jpg
http://www.sashacohen.com/photos/sashanews.gif
Both are impressive.
What I love about Ota's Ina is the way she does it to the crescendo of the music making it seem so gloroious. Also she changes to the inside edge at the turn of the phrase and gives it so much emotion.

Yukina's ina has a lovely transition into a change edge spread eagle which was very effective. At worlds exhibition I did not see Sasha's R&J ina covering the entire rink, maybe 1/3 - 1/2 of the rink at most.
 
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gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
At worlds exhibitiion, most of the ladies included the ina bauer. Fumie's was the most impressive in my book, she covered MAJOR real estate with minimum set up, and the SPEED of her ina bauer was second to none in that exhibition. Sasha's ina bauer IMO did not cover the "entire rink" or "half of the rink" or "at most 1/3 - 1/2 rink", more like one eigth, and her speed was no where near 2 other ladies.

kokekin said:
Yukina's ina is so impressive!
I fell in love with her ina in Japan National.

I am jealous :)
 
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registered

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
I rewatched my tape. In R&J program Sasha's Ina Bauer follows her spiral, which takes 1/2 of the rink. Then Ina covers another half of the rink.

Yukina has a flexible back, but her leg position is not as nice, as Sasha's. Yukina holds out her IB only for a few seconds too.
 

peachstatesk8er

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
gezando said:
At worlds exhibitiion, most of the ladies included the ina bauer. Fumie's was the most impressive in my book, she covered MAJOR real estate with minimum set up, and the SPEED of her ina bauer was second to none in that exhibition. Sasha's ina bauer IMO did not cover the "entire rink" or "half of the rink" or "at most 1/3 - 1/2 rink", more like one eigth, and her speed was no where near 2 other ladies.


Well fortunately there is nothing written anywhere that an IB or spead eagle must go for miles. It, IMO, would depend on the music, the placement of the move, the point one is trying to make with the move whether it needs to, or choreographically should, be a long-held IB. I think they're lovely when they're held for a long time, but there's no hard and fast rule that says they have to be.

As for position, being from the old school of skating, of course I prefer the major arch in the back and leg position of someone like Sasha or Paul.

And, not to be picky, but Norlite forgot that a Bauer and Eagle both can be done on totally straight, no inside or outside. It requires more control, but they can be done. :)
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I think everyone can agree on: Sasha has the best Ina Bauer in the business.

Paul Wylie has the best... hands down... also Lucinda Ruh and Josée Chouinard ;)
 

rtureck

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Oh there is some revision, so Sasha's Ina did not cover the entire rink? I too must revise my earlier post, Sasha covered probably 1/4 to 1/3 rink. Yukina held the ina for a couple of seconds longer than Sasha;)

I watched the world exhibitions again, all 5 ladies performed IB, I love Fumie's the best. Whether the rule books said IB should be held for minutes instead of seconds or seconds instead of minutes. Fumie's IB was choreographed at the right place, there was freedom. She was so ethereal.

Off topic from IB, I love Fumie's costume for the Sanctus program. When she stroked and IB through the ice there was this wind on her hair, and skirt sailing feeling, there was so much joy in her motion.
 
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