Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34

Thread: Sasha Cohen - Year in Review

  1. #1
    SkateFan4Life
    Guest

    Sasha Cohen - Year in Review

    Here's a link to the USFSA's review of Sasha Cohen's 2002-2003 competitive season.....


    http://www.usfsa.org/news/2002-03/co...htm?siteid=983

  2. #2
    Defender of over-the-hill decrepit skaters
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    41
    Can we get this thread deleted? There's already a 3 page thread about this titled "Year in Review: Sasha Cohen". We don't need another one with the exact same link.

  3. #3
    SkateFan4Life
    Guest
    Hey, come on, already. With all of the threads I start on this message board, you're just going to have to excuse me if I occasionally post a "new" thread that someone else has already started. That happened, obviously, with the Sasha thread.

    If the moderators can delete this thread, that's certainly fine with me.

  4. #4
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,963
    SkateFan, now I'm in a quandary. The other thread on this topic got so raucus that I had to close it to let things cool off a little. So maybe people want to start up again.

    Mathman

  5. #5
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    747
    So maybe people want to start up again.
    kinda like Groundhog day?

  6. #6
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Sasha fans, get used to it. Sasha's a good top skater threatening all the other skaters and she will be in for a lot of bashing type posts from her adversaries. Kwanfans know all about this.

    Joe

  7. #7
    SkateFan4Life
    Guest
    I hope Sasha Cohen gets her act together at Nationals at at Worlds this year and skates the kinds of programs she's capable of skating - beautiful, powerful, and memorable. If she does that, I predict she will be both the US and World champion in 2004.

  8. #8
    Custom Woman
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,770
    QUOTE
    Originally Posted by Joesitz:
    "Sasha's Edges p13"
    09-06-2003 05:50 PM
    Mathman - It's incredible the constant put downs of Mk over the years. First it was Tara, then for lack of someone else it became Irina. Who da thunk Sarah would be THE one Grand Winner when SC was coming on strong. SC is still coming on strong with the fans, and her fans have to realize that she's at the top of her game and she is ez prey to the nonSCs fans. Live with it, the Kwaniacs had to.
    Joe

    QUOTE
    "Sasha Cohen Year in Review"
    09-11-2003 07:48 AM
    Originally Posted by Joesitz:
    Sasha fans, get used to it. Sasha's a good top skater threatening all the other skaters and she will be in for a lot of bashing type posts from her adversaries. Kwanfans know all about this.
    Joe
    -----------------------------------------------

    Joe,
    What I don't understand is why you continually take this condescending stance not only towards Sasha fans, but also towards fans of all skaters who may or may not include those of Michelle as well. In the "Sasha's Edges" thread and the first "Sasha Year in Review Thread," the latter of which the moderators wisely chose to lock, the only serious argument as I saw it was between two posters, Rtureck, a devoted antiSasha fan and Registered an ardent Sasha fan. Everybody else expressed differences of opinion, but did so respectfully and without excessive arguing back and forth. So why lump all Sasha fans and fans of all skaters besides or in addition to Michelle into one group? And who needs you, as you said to me, to "pound it into their heads" that Sasha is going to get bashed. It's obvious to me that they KNOW that and always have.

    As you may recall, Sasha was ripped to shreds by many at '02 Nationals for alllegedly "slamming" into Michelle during warm-up and even before that, Sasha was number one whipping skater by many on the various forums for as long as she'd been on the senior level. Believe me, skating fans, whether they like Sasha or not, are used to her getting bashed. That doesn't mean her fans aren't going to defend her just as fans of any skater defend her/him.

    Michelle fans still defend her when she is criticized. But is anybody posting over and over again, "As the top skater in the world, Michelle is going to get bashed. Get used to it! We (Irina, Tara, Sasha, whomever) fans know all about it."

    I find what you're doing to be very condescending to the GS forum members. It's as if you find GSers too stupid to realize it for themselves. And I know a number of others feel the same way, but nobody wants to go up against a moderator who is so obsessed with this issue. So obnoxious Rgirl will. You've been posting these "Sasha fans, get used to it! Kwan fans know all about it!" since fall 2001 and I find it a very bad example coming from a moderator.

    I've never seen you post, "Those of you who dislike or hate Sasha, look, she is a major player and a top ranked skater no matter how much you dislike her skating. Get used to it!" Why not? Certain antiSasha fans have expressed constant putdowns of Sasha over the years; certain antiTara fans have done the same; and the same happened with Irina. You've never protested those. But then I know you don't like those skaters, so there would be no reason for you to.

    I know you are a Michelle fan to the depths of your soul and as such don't see how anybody could criticize her for anything--I mean legitimate criticism of her skating, not personal attacks--but as a super fan, you're entitled. I also know you feel Michelle fans are superior to other fans in terms of understanding the way "fandom" works. Again, you're entitled. But as far as your "Sasha, Tara, Irina, whomever fans, get used to it!"--it's gotten really old and obnoxious, IMO. It also sets up a feeling of "We Michelle fans are better and more intelligent than fans of other skaters." That's really good coming from a moderator and it's not the case as I see it. When a new poster whose name escapes me posted some legitimate criticisms about Michelle's lack of a 3/3 last April or May, virtually every active Michelle fan on the board attacked her. Nothing against Michelle fans--I'm close to being one myself except that I'm not a "fan" person in general, despite what you think--but from what I've seen on GS I wouldn't say "Michelle fans are used to it." Why should they be "used to it?" If they're Michelle fans and someone criticizes her, of course they should defend her. They shouldn't attack the poster--unless they go against the guidelines--and even then it should go to the moderators.

    In the two threads I mentioned, IMO, Registered was disagreeing with Rtureck, that's all. It certainly went on too long on both parts and it was right for the mods to stop it, but IMO there was nothing wrong with Registered expressing her positive opinions about Sasha. How you managed to extrapolate that into "All Sasha fans just don't get that now that Sasha is a top contender, she's going to get bashed" is beyond me. You started out being vehemently antiSasha in 2001, then magically, when she started winning in fall '02, you started saying, "I knew she was good all along." I just don't think the forum needs you, moderator or not, or anybody, lecturing them on "Get used to it!" when they already are.

    Sasha has been bashed by posters on various forums since she was first noticed at Nationals in 2000. Also, almost EVERY skater who has been on top in the past has been bashed in some way and every skater who ever will be on top will be bashed in some way. I know you want to "teach" us all that Kwan fans are the "model" for how to be a fan, but really Joe, who do you think you're kidding?

    I hope you know that there is no disrespect intended in this. As I said, I tried to say this to you more politely via PM but you just didn't get it. All you did was dismiss, put down, and misinterpret everything I said.

    With all due respect, I'm asking you to give it a rest, Joe, or at least reconsider how you word this campaign of yours.
    Rgirl
    Last edited by Rgirl; 09-18-2003 at 05:39 PM.

  9. #9
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    rGirl - Sensetivity to certain skaters is apparent all over the board. There is nothing wrong with that. If my compliments of Sasha are not ringing sincere to one poster, they are ringing the opposite to another. My statement was a 'no win situation', and I didn't make the statment for any kind of a win. I sincerely believe Sasha is at the top of her game and is therefore more open to criticism as the summer nitpickings of Kwan have been for years.

    The tension building up to these competitions is increasing every day. The slightest statement by one poster can be misunderstood as a bash by another poster. That same statement made in April wouldn't blink and eye. But at this time of the year everying said is so testy for fans' favorites.

    I'm hoping everyone cools it for the upcoming season. The summer nitpicking should be over.

    Joe

  10. #10
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    747
    Just because I disagree with some Sasha fans about the quality of her skating, that does not mean I am anti Sasha. In the IFS thread I said her edges are improving.

    I don't worship Sasha, and some of her fans think that is blasphemous, anti goddess. "have your head examined ", IMHO this is close to flaming and hostile. I have never name call and label others, I asked these folks to re read the definition of bashing. If that is anti Sasha, then I think some Sasha fans are anti Sasha neutral fans.

    There are many moderators here at GS, if they think what I write about Sasha's skating is "anti Sasha" they can contact me.

    A general board should allow difference of opinion.
    Last edited by rtureck; 09-18-2003 at 08:29 AM.

  11. #11
    Custom Woman
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,770
    Joe,
    I wish you would reread my post. It has nothing to do with Sasha herself or complimenting or not complenting her. It has to do with your superior attitude in taking the stance for the last two years that it is your job to tell other posters what to think. To quote from your PM to me, "She [Sasha] is a top skater now and it [bashing] comes with the territory. It's kind of a weird but definitely true compliment. If I've done it more than once, I am trying to get it through those posters heads." I don't think you get anything through anybody's heads when your take on that "Let the master tell all you idiots what to do" king of attitude.

    You've been posting the following four or five times a year since fall of 2001, ie
    "Originally posted by Joe:
    Sasha fans, get used to it. Sasha's a good top skater threatening all the other skaters and she will be in for a lot of bashing type posts from her adversaries. Kwanfans know all about this."

    I never said you were "bashing" or "attacking" Sasha. I said I thought you were being condescending and taking a superior attitude to fans of ALL skaters. To put it bluntly, who are you to "hammer it into those posters heads" that if they are a Sasha fan or fan of any top skater who gets criticized, to "get used to it?" Then to add, "We Kwan fans know all about it" makes it sound like, "We, the superior Kwan fans, are the fans all you dummies should model yourselves after." IMO, no group of fans is superior to any other, knows more about how to respond to criticism of their favorite skater than any other, or is in the position to tell other fans "Get used to it!"

    My decision to approach you first via PM had only to do with you putting yourself in the position of The Greaat Advisor to All Skating Fans. Fans of Sasha, Irina, Tara, and those of many other skaters going back decades who have been highly criticized do not need you, Joe, to hammer anything into their heads. The first couple of times you posted your "Sasha fans, get used to it!" I figured you were just in a snit and would soon get it out of your system. But after two years of it, I really wonder what your motivation is. If you want to compliment Sasha, compliment her. But what you're doing is bashing her fans, telling them they're too stupid and oversensitive to take attacks on Sasha as actual compliments. If that is your opinion, fine. But why take the superior attitude and add the "We Kwan fans know all about it?" It sounds like you want Sasha fans to bow at the feet of Kwan fans and say, "O mighty Kwan fans! Teach us the way of understanding that when people bash Sasha, they are really complimenting her!"

    BTW, Kwan fans in general (not everyone, of course) get just as upset as fans of any other skater when Michelle is attacked, so I don't know where you get this superior attitude from. If someone posted, "Kwan fans get used to it! We Sasha fans have!" several times a year, year in and year out, you can bet the person who posted it would hear about it big time. Same if it were any other popular US skater.

    Also, this has nothing to do with the time of year. As I said, you've posted your "Sasha fans get used to it!" multiple times over the last two years. After the first year and four of five posts I thought, "Joe's not getting this out of his system. He's getting worse." I wanted to say something then, but opted to keep the peace. Besides, if it were late fall you'd say I'd was nervous over Nationals. If it were spring, it would be Worlds. If it were after Worlds, I'd be POd because of the results of worlds. If it were midsummer, I'd be bored. Your arguments just don't wash and they do not pertain to what I wrote.

    Finally, we have a 20-page thread on "Sasha's Edges" in which Mathman said on p12 "Joe, what I am most impressed with on this thread is that we have been going back and forth about Sasha's talents and prospects for 12 pages now and nobody has jumped in to bash Michelle or anyone else. I think we all deserve a pat on the back." For 20 pages there has been much discussion about many aspects of Sasha's skating and with the exception of one or two posters, virtually no attacks or out-of-bounds remarks from fans or nonfans of Sasha. I'd say that's pretty ample evidence that your "Sasha fans get used to it!" remarks are both unwarranted and a part some personal campaign you have to "teach Sasha fans a lesson!"

    On the first "Sasha's Year in Review" thread, the problem came down to just two posters, one an antiSasha fan and the other a pro Sasha fan who seem to have locked horns and be in some kind of ongoing one-upmanship match. That's two posters out of everyone on GS. If you have problems with the way they are arguing about Sasha, why don't you address it to those two?

    As I said in my PM to you:
    "Here's what I think you're trying to say: 'Every athlete who gets near the top with high expectations gets bashed. It's the way of the world.' [I think if you say it that way, or something to that effect, and then maybe people will listen and you will get your point across.]

    I know you're just using Sasha and Michelle as examples, but it does sound rather dictatorial when someone posts the same thing over and over again. I know you don't mean it to, but it comes across as, 'Hey all you neophite Sasha fans! Top-ranked skaters get bashed, don't you know that you idiots!? We Kwan fans do, as in, 'We Kwan fans know everything; unlike you Sasha fans, we've been around.'

    Like I said, I know you don't mean it to come across like that, but that's how it does--and not just to me, and not just to me and one or two other people. Personally, I don't think you need to even say 'Top-ranked skaters get bashed. Get used to it' at all. I think most GSers know. And for those who don't, perhaps you could address them individually instead of telling every skating fan 'Get used to it!' as if they are an imbecile.

    BTW, on the 'Sasha Year in Review Thread' that got locked, we both know it was an ongoing, repetitive, stubborn fight over petty, nitpicky things between two posters that caused the mods, and I think wisely, to lock it. Only those two were involved. That's another reason why I think your 'Get used to it!' posts hurt rather than help.

    I really don't mean to get on your case, it's just that I've heard what people have said during the many times you've posted this before. Your 'Get used to it!' posts haven't come across as very diplomatic--said the ultimate undiplomatic Rgirl I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying and understand that it's nothing against you." End of PM.


    I don't expect you will ever get what I'm trying to say, and if this seems like an overreaction to a typical Joe post, so be it. But the fact is, I first tried to talk to you nicely about it in my PM but you were rude and dismissive. Also, after two years of your "Sasha fans get used to it!" well, "I'm tired as hell and I don't want to take it anymore!" (To paraphrase the movie "Network") Yes, I know the moderators get all kinds of complaints, some of which are just plain silly, but this has and never has had anything to do with moderator business. I wasn't complaining to you as a moderator. I wasn't asking you to tell some other poster that I thought s/he was out of line. I approached you with respect as someone who I thought was a longtime forum friend. Guess I was wrong.

    Anyway, I don't think you're going to change how anybody responds by telling people, in so many words that they're a bunch of idiots who need to just get used to it like the always superior Kwan fans have. (BTW, this is nothing at all against Kwan fans, one of whom I would be if I were a fan person. It's just the way Joe was using Kwan fans.) Really, Joe. When you write stuff like that, I have to say "Forum Diplomat" is not the moniker for you.

    That's all I have to say, Joe. I wish you could read what I was saying instead of what you want to accuse me of saying. Maybe someday you'll hear what I'm trying to communicate because it truly is -- or at least was -- with all due respect.
    Rgirl

  12. #12
    Custom Woman
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,770
    Rtureck,
    This discussion has nothing to do with you or what you're complaining about in your post. But since you brought it up, this board does allow for differences of opinion, as evidenced by the many differences of opinon on the 20-page "Sasha's Edges" thread, to name just one.

    The fact that a thread was locked because you and another poster could not stop bickering over and over again about the same things should be a clue that perhaps you need to reconsider the way you express your differences of opinion.
    Rgirl

  13. #13
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    300

    I got it!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe there should be a book on "The Dummies Guide to Properly Expressing Differences of Opinions on Discussion Boards".

    Sorry, rgirl, had to lighten the load a little. This was getting way too "retro" for me.

    As far as what joesitz says, I don't think I took it as done in a superior attitudinal manner. (wow, cool words) I just chalked it up to joesitz being joesitz!

    Personally I figure if you can't take the heat, you ought to quit cooking. Any elite figure skater, male or female, is going to have ardent, non-bendable fans who think the slightest negative comment towards their fav is being done by an anti-whoever. That's where it gets ridiculous.

    Ok, I've said my 2 cents. Now back to lurking around the boards.:\

  14. #14
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    747
    that perhaps you need to reconsider the way you express your differences of opinion.
    Perhaps I will reconsider, there is always alternative ways of doing things. I would appreciate you stop the labelling and name calling "anti Sasha". You have no basis for that at all. That is basically my peeve, when I disagree with some Sasha fans about her skating, they retaliate with name calling and labelling.
    Last edited by rtureck; 09-18-2003 at 01:39 PM.

  15. #15
    Gone with the wind windspirit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    FSU
    Posts
    447
    Originally posted by rtureck
    Perhaps I will reconsider, there is always alternative ways of doing things. I would appreciate you stop the labelling and name calling "anti Sasha". You have no basis for that at all. That is basically my peeve, when I disagree with some Sasha fans about her skating, they retaliate with name calling and labelling.
    Rtureck, with all due respect, but after those countless posts you've made about her, you do come off as anti Sasha. You may think there's one Sasha fanatic on this board, which you've pointed out a few times, but you seem to have some fanatical tendencies yourself -- you can't let anything even slightly pro Sasha slip without your trying to prove it wrong. This way every thread involving you and your main opponent can go on forever. And from the side it does look like (nothing more than) bickering, this is where I agree with Rgirl. And for "I disagree with some Sasha fans about her skating, they retaliate with name calling and labelling", Registered might as well say that about you. S/he would have just to add "anti" to Sasha or change it to "people who don't like Sasha's skating", or whatever. You tried to disproved what s/he was saying at the beginning by attacking the person, not the issue. I don't care who that person is, I can form my own opinion based on what s/he writes. And after a while I've come to realize there's no talking about Sasha with her/him - more or less - objectively. Nor with you. You both seem to have some kind of Sasha compulsion (different kinds, but still) that always comes first. And thanks to you two the "Sasha is that - She is not" threads have a chance to live forever.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Thing that I have noticed about this site and Sasha Cohen
    By oOSC_I*S_PrincessoO in forum 2004-05 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 07-22-2005, 04:27 AM
  2. Sasha Cohen Journal Updates
    By SkateFan4Life in forum 2004-05 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-23-2005, 09:37 AM
  3. Sasha Cohen - here we go, AGAIN!!!!
    By shdotz in forum 2004-05 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 01-26-2005, 09:20 AM
  4. Sasha Cohen - A Bridesmaid Again
    By SkateFan4Life in forum 2004-05 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 99
    Last Post: 01-22-2005, 04:03 PM
  5. Sasha Cohen should be a PAIR SKATER...now hear me out please! (:^)
    By Nadine in forum 2003-04 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 01-21-2004, 10:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •