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Thread: Hip injuries question

  1. #1
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Question Hip injuries question

    News about hip injuries has dominated the off-season. Rudi Galindo, Alexei Yagudin, Tara Lipinski, Yoshie Onda, Jenny Kirk, Deanna Stellato, Naomi Nari Nam -- the list goes on and on, not to mention all of those second and third tier skaters that we don't hear so much about.

    In the case of the young girls, the chief culprit is believed to be overtraining triple-triples. So here are my questions.

    1. Is a triple-triple combination harder on your body then a triple...and then another triple? Which is worse, 10 repetitions of a triple toe - triple toe, or 20 repetions of a triple toe in isolation? Or 15 repetions of a triple toe - double toe?

    2. Is a triple loop - triple loop (or some other combination with a loop as the second jump) harder on your body than, say, a triple toe - triple toe? What about a triple Lutz - triple toe?

    3. Common sense says that landing on one leg like that over and over is going to take it's toll. But what about the take-off. If you have to twist your body, while taking off on a bent ankle, then springing into the air by the strength of your leg (aided, I suppose, by various physical forces involving speed, blade angle, toe pick, etc.) -- is that hard on the hips, too?

    Mathman

  2. #2
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Larry - I really should bow to rGirl on this topic. She knows hips!

    I'm your knee man. But it would seem to me that the overuse of the side in which you take off and land is the culprit for tearing at one particular hip. When one does combos and the emphasis is on a take off or a landing involving the same edge (read hip) that complicates matters allthe more.

    In dancing one trains to jump in both direction so nothing is overused. However, in dancing one has to land the jumps in a good pliet (bend of knees) otherwise, it's knee surgery. I am surprised Maria B who never bent her knees has not had that problem (at least we don't know of it).

    Back to hips. I have no real suggestions other than for young skaters to practice the 3/3s with the consequences in mind.

    Joe

  3. #3
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    Trying to tack on a loop at the end of a combination (especially a triple loop on the end) seems to be one of the worst culprits for causing hip damage.

    Look at the way this jump takes off -- it's the only jump with no toe assist or "free leg" assist (sal/axel). The torque on the on-ice side must be incredible as the upper body often prerotates the jump before the lower body gets off the ice. When a skater is tacking the loop on the backend of a combo, there's often even less momentum than what they would have going into a solo jump.

    I know the jump racks up good points for skaters when they use it at the end, but I think they may have to reconsider its use -- or at least reconsider the way these jumps are trained.

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    2. Is a triple loop - triple loop (or some other combination with a loop as the second jump) harder on your body than, say, a triple toe - triple toe? What about a triple Lutz - triple toe?
    This is from a skaters perpective: YES!!! Well, actually I'm only on doubles, so I'm sure triples are even harder. Taking off and land on your right foot puts alot of strain on your hip and knee because you have to get low to be able to pull up and turn then as soon as you hit the ice do it again. With the 2toe/2loop I don't notice as much strain because you have the toe assist (but thats just me.) I find it easier to do a lutz/loop than a lutz/toeloop because you don't have to take the extra time to pick, you can just go straight up again. Does that make sense?
    Laura

  5. #5
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    My take on the loop jump:

    Single Loop - not too difficult and very effective in footwork.

    Doubl loop - requires more concentration. It requires extra buttuck power.

    Triple loop = requires more energy. It uses a lot of buttucks power.

    All the above takes more of a toll on the hips than any other jump.

    Joe

  6. #6
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    These are all good arguments I'll use to explain to my coach my hatred of that horrible awkward feeling loop jump :D
    Now I just have to find something for the lutz.

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