Ladies SP

OK, I have some news!!!

Isabel Drescher (Germany) have 43 points. She landed 3T-3T and 2Lz, but had a fall at the 2A.

After 2 Groups she was second. In front was one of 2 Japanese girls, with over 50 points!

Results are here.

Hopefully one of two leading ladies can win this thing.

Shoko!

Seems like the field didn't really skate up to par. Shame for Amanda Dobbs, who is a lovely skater. With her technical content she definitely need to go clean.

1 Shoko ISHIKAWA JPN 53.52 32.71 20.81 5.41 4.94 5.22 5.25 5.19 0.00 #5
2 Diane SZMIETT CAN 48.93 29.22 19.71 5.13 4.72 4.97 4.94 4.88 0.00 #27
3 Alexe GILLES USA 46.75 26.40 20.35 5.16 4.88 5.03 5.19 5.19 0.00 #13
4 Miriam ZIEGLER AUT 44.85 27.13 17.72 4.56 4.28 4.44 4.50 4.38 0.00 #19
5 Sarah HECKEN GER 44.06 25.08 18.98 4.97 4.50 4.78 4.75 4.72 0.00 #26
6 Sonia LAFUENTE ESP 43.51 25.91 17.60 4.56 4.25 4.44 4.41 4.34 0.00 #23
7 Isabel DRESCHER GER 43.08 26.27 17.81 4.91 4.16 4.44 4.47 4.28 1.00 #9
8 Joshi HELGESSON SWE 42.93 23.17 19.76 5.06 4.66 4.97 5.00 5.00 0.00 #24
9 Evgenia POCHUFAROVA RUS 42.47 26.10 16.37 4.31 4.00 4.13 4.00 4.03 0.00 #1
10 Na-Hee SIN KOR 42.18 23.48 18.70 4.78 4.44 4.72 4.81 4.63 0.00 #22
11 Rumi SUIZU JPN 41.15 23.07 19.08 5.09 4.50 4.72 4.81 4.72 1.00 #2
12 Amanda DOBBS USA 40.60 21.39 20.21 5.09 4.91 4.91 5.16 5.19 1.00 #11
13 Eva LIM NED 37.10 21.17 15.93 4.19 3.72 4.03 4.06 3.91 0.00 #17
14 Phoebe DI TOMMASO AUS 35.13 19.13 16.00 4.03 3.75 4.06 4.00 4.16 0.00 #6
15 Chaochih LIU TPE 34.63 19.36 16.27 4.25 3.84 4.16 4.09 4.00 1.00 #3
16 McKenzie CRAWFORD CAN 34.10 17.25 16.85 4.44 3.91 4.19 4.28 4.25 0.00 #10
17 Lejeanne MARAIS RSA 34.02 20.00 14.02 3.63 3.31 3.53 3.47 3.59 0.00 #18
18 Alexandra ELIZONDO MEX 32.66 18.07 14.59 3.72 3.44 3.69 3.72 3.66 0.00 #7
19 Mary Grace BALDO PHI 31.88 18.51 13.37 3.44 3.09 3.50 3.38 3.31 0.00 #8
20 Merovee EPHREM MON 31.09 15.90 15.19 3.84 3.63 3.78 3.88 3.88 0.00 #4
21 Maria DIKANOVIC CRO 30.94 16.29 15.65 3.94 3.69 3.94 3.88 4.13 1.00 #12
22 Mimi Tanasorn CHINDASOOK THA 29.26 14.78 15.48 4.00 3.66 3.88 3.94 3.88 1.00 #21
23 Stacy PERFETTI BRA 28.13 16.21 12.92 3.34 2.97 3.19 3.28 3.38 1.00 #16
24 Siobhan MCCOLL RSA 27.05 12.85 14.20 3.66 3.34 3.72 3.50 3.53 0.00 #25
25 Anja CHONG SIN 22.48 11.80 11.68 2.94 2.69 3.00 3.00 2.97 1.00 #15
26 Jessica SKINNER RSA 22.15 10.99 11.16 2.97 2.56 2.81 2.88 2.72 0.00 #14
27 Anca IONESCU ROU 18.96 9.99 9.97 2.78 2.38 2.38 2.56 2.38 1.00 #20

Both Rumi Suizu and Amanda Dobbs appear to have a rough skate in the SP.

All three of the South African ladies got new SP personal bests (at least according to the ISU). I'm including their novice champ, as this is her first ISU scoring event and so should automatically be a personal best.

Jana Smekhnova must have withdrawn again. She also withdrew from the Ostrava JGP.

While Chaochih Liu is still struggling after her switch to Chinese Taipei, at least her SP here had one fall less than the one in Mexico City.

Looks like Alexe has her work cut out for her.

Whatever happened to Suizu and Dobbs? although they are all in the 40s score card. Nice for Ishikawa (not a total surprise) and great for Szmiett.

Suizu is anything but consistent, so I'm not too surprised.

My guess is that Amanda had a fall on the combo, and since her tech content, jumpwise at least, is lesser than the other girls, it hurt her big time.

I heard that Gilles landed her 3T-3T combo but popped her planned 3Lz to a single and received no points for her axel (A), while Dobbs landed 3T-2T but fell on her 2A and had a wrong edge call on her 2Lz.

In that case, it's really impressive that Alexe still managed 46.75 and is still well-positioned to skate for a medal. She did get the second highest PCS, and she has nice spins.

Alexe has had problems with her SP this season, but her FS is wonderful.

feraina said:

She did get the second highest PCS, and she has nice spins.

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If you have USA (and sometimes JPN) behind your name in this Ladies' JGP-series - you automatically get high PCS. It's a pattern. I think the only US-girl who didn't really get high PCS was the Secundy girl. But of course the US-girls only get so much PCS because they are just so much better than everyone else - as opposed to every Russian ice-dance pair who only win / medal because of the RussianMafia-Kremilin-SovietUnion-Duma-KGB conspiracy.

(It was already laughable at the last Junior Worlds: Jenni Vähämaa got a 5 something for skating skills and all three US-girls a 6 something? So Zhang got better Skating Skills than Vähämaa? I have no problems with the overall result or the podium - but the judges could give credit where credit is due).

Medusa said:

(It was already laughable at the last Junior Worlds: Jenni Vähämaa got a 5 something for skating skills and all three US-girls a 6 something? So Zhang got better Skating Skills than Vähämaa? I have no problems with the overall result or the podium - but the judges could give credit where credit is due).

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Just to tweak your memory----

FLATT - TES: 61.74, SS: 6.25
3S, 3Z+3T, 3L, 3F, 3Z(e), 2A+2T, 3F+2T+2L

ZHANG - TES: 58.15, SS: 6.32
3F+3T, 3Z(e)+2T, 3L, 2A, 2A, 3F, 3L<+2R+2L, 3Z(e)

VAHAMAA - TES: 47.08 SS: 5.89
2A, 3L+2T, 3T+3T< df and to, 1F, 3L+2T, 3F (fall), 3S

If Vahamaa got a lower mark for skating skills, it is because she didn't attempt a lutz, didn't land a 3F, her 3/3 attempt was underrotated and she had no 3-jump combination. If her PCS scores were overall lower, it was because she had a somewhat messy skate, with a fall and some awkward landings.

Flatt and Zhang both had fully accredited 3/3s, and they were combinations with the harder jumps (lutz and flip). Each landed two lutzes, two flips and a 3-jump combination in her program. Both skated visually clean programs with no jarring landings, step outs or falls.

How about you give credit where it is due.

Except that we're talking basic skating skills here. And in that aspect Vähamaa is way ahead of Zhang (Nagasu and Flatt both have very good basics). If the judges want to give Caroline the performance, interpretation, etc, marks, by all means, it's completely deserved. And Medusa said she had no problem with the final result.

But then again, judges don't make the distinction between PCS marks as they should.

oleada said:

Except that we're talking basic skating skills here. And in that aspect Vähamaa is way ahead of Zhang (Nagasu and Flatt both have very good basics). If the judges want to give Caroline the performance, interpretation, etc, marks, by all means, it's completely deserved. And Medusa said she had no problem with the final result.

But then again, judges don't make the distinction between PCS marks as they should.

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Judges have to Rush to Judgement. The in house fans are clamoring for results.

It's a quick decision for them based on the 6.0 system and giving the highest number to whomever they consider worthy. It's all so subjective.

Joesitz said:

Judges have to Rush to Judgement. The in house fans are clamoring for results.

It's a quick decision for them based on the 6.0 system and giving the highest number to whomever they consider worthy. It's all so subjective.

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Um, this is a much too sweeping a statement to apply to ALL judges, imo.

Gilles usually achieves high levels and +GOE for her spins/spirals/footwork (which would explain why her TES mark is not lower despite her problems on 2 jumps), so why don't we wait for the detailed protocols to be published before making assumptions? Both she and Dobbs do have very good skating skills, imo.

chuckm said:

If Vahamaa got a lower mark for skating skills, it is because she didn't attempt a lutz, didn't land a 3F, her 3/3 attempt was underrotated and she had no 3-jump combination. If her PCS scores were overall lower, it was because she had a somewhat messy skate, with a fall and some awkward landings.

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Since when have Skating Skills something to do with jumps?

Brittney Rizo had the highest PCS and Skating Skills mark in the SP and FS at JGP Merano. In her freeskate she landed two Triples (Loop and Toeloop), fell twice, underrotated twice, had level 1 spiral and step sequence.

There are much more prominent examples. Lambiel landed two clean triples at the Cup of China last year, didn't attempt a Triple Axel and fell three times - Ming Xu of China landed two Triple Axels and four more clean Triples and Ming Xu got nearly 20 points less PCS. And I know that Ming Xu is no Lambiel - but he is not as bad as this difference in PCS might indicate. Ming Xu got the second worst Skating Skills (I very badly want to use the short version "SS" for skating skills but considering my national background that seems like a really bad idea...). So after your theory Ming Xu should have gotten extra points for not spending half of the time falling and landing the Triple Axel (twice).

At Cup of Russia Kozuka and Buttle had the same jump layout, actually Kozuka had more because his included a Triple-Triple combo and he maxed out his combos. Buttle fell on the second Triple Axel, didn't max out his combos and singled a double Axel attempt. Kozuka had only minor deductions. So we had a 6 Triple program with a fall and no Triple-Triple - versus an 8 Triple program including a Triple Triple and without a fall. Buttle got about half a point more for Skating Skills. And we are talking Kozuka here, the guy who is flying over the ice. Why did Buttle get more Skating Skills? Can't be his transitions or choreography, that is judged seperately.

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Do you really believe you get better marks (especially for Skating Skills) if you attempt more difficult jumps? Or is it enough for you to make a huge fuss about every juding panel that includes people from Eastern Europe and not think about the fact that the poor US-underdogs are not always the victims? Because I think that the PCS is abused on a general basis and not just to diss your favourites.

And by the way, give me a call if you find a youtube that shows Zhang attempting an actual Lutz.

Vahamaa may have excellent skating skills, but unfortunately they were not on display in her JW free skate. The judges are supposed to judge based on what they see in front of them, not what they have seen in previous competitions.

And BTW, the only clean FS Vahamaa did last year was at Finlandia. Her 3 JGP performances and JW were not nearly as good. She is a lovely skater, but it seems as if her nerves get to her when the stakes are high.

PCS also has to do with overall presentation and performance, including musicality, flow, transitions, choreography, and the ability to interpret the character of the music. Perhaps the US Junior girls are just more outwardly expressive than the other skaters and pay more attention to the fine details.