Question to our overseas and non US friends

With the election tomorrow...I am just wondering what kind of coverage the election is getting in other countries and what they think about the candidates?

I'm in the US (though if you talk to most shipping companies, university tuition people, and other money grubbers... we're over seas too ) but according to the media reports we get in the Journalism courses it's actually getting a lot of attention in other countries...

of course, the US media reports aren't that accurate in my mind anyway, so who knows if that's true

I follow some of the Russian media... Disgusting, really... They see McCain as the devil, but cannot overcome their innate racism in regards to Obama.

I follow some Israeli media as well. They're just really worried about what will happen to US support for Israel under Obama. Sort of a concern to me as well.

Have some friends in France and Germany. In both countries, it seems McCain is uniformly portrayed as a senile warmonger, and Obama as the next JFK.

I was at the Philadelphia Museum of Art a few weeks ago and I was taking a collection tour with a young couple from Austria. They said that they were spending every night in the hotel watching the television regarding the election (I think it was during the conventions). They said that they found it fascinating!! So I am just curious as to what others think too.

Ptichka said:

Have some friends in France and Germany. In both countries, it seems McCain is uniformly portrayed as a senile warmonger, and Obama as the next JFK.

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are you sure they aren't watching the American coverage?

This may not be what you had in mind, but there's a story at msnbc.com about worldwide interest in the election. It appears to be pretty high.

I don't see any reason to question the reporting. In fact, it seems to me common sense that other countries would be interested. If the world is a living room, the US in the elephant in it.

I think US actions affect other countires on a day-in/day-out basis moreso than the actions of other countries affect the US. Ultimately, everything affects everything else in a global economy ... but the US is of such wealth, size and power that our actions are felt more readily.

Susan

decker said:

This may not be what you had in mind, but there's a story at msnbc.com about worldwide interest in the election. It appears to be pretty high.

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I read that article as well. I know that we have a great deal of non US posters here and I was hoping to hear some of their opinions!!

Either way...this election will be historic....either the first female vice president or the first african-american president!!

I figured you were hoping for opinions from "real live" non-US citizens

My boss has projects in eastern Europe and several formerly Soviet states. But we generally stay away from politics. We work in Georgia and Ukraine, and I am itching to ask those guys about the late unpleasantness in the region ... but it would be awkward as our projects are cooperative among the various governments of the countries involved.

I saw an interesting comparison of US and Canadian political parties at a hobby board that I frequent. The Canadian poster indicated that, more or less, their Conservatives = US Republicans, and their New Democrats = US Democrats.

However, she said there is no Canadian party "conservative" enough to run on a platform that health care is a privilege or just another commodity. On the other hand, no party there is "liberal" enough to run on a platform of intentional deficit spending.

Susan

decker said:

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However, she said there is no Canadian party "conservative" enough to run on a platform that health care is a privilege or just another commodity. On the other hand, no party there is "liberal" enough to run on a platform of intentional deficit spending.

Susan

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Wow, this makes me long to be Canadian. Healthcare is one of the main reasons I am no longer a staunch Republican and am instead a staunch Democrat. I just reached a point where I came to believe that every person in a modern, settled nation deserves health care. Period. It shouldn't be the province of the wealthy or the burden of a certain class to pay for.

And I loathe deficit spending!

The Japanese media has made really a big deal out of it. Although I do not think that the media presents any particular preferences for either of the candidates, some worry that Obama may not prioritize the relationship with Japan, relative to that with China, as much as McCain would have. There are also issues regarding the American military base in Japan. They also wonder what Obama would do with N Korea. N Korea is getting more and more risky in their political situations and certainly deserves careful attention. Japan has had longstanding conflicts with N Korea for their kidnapping Japanese citizens and not returning them. They also certainly worry about nuclear weapon. They wonder how much cooperative Obama may be in addressing that country.

Another big thing is certainly the world economy. I understand that it is already proven that Bush failed in addressing the economic crisis. But IMO, this does not necessarily yield the evidence that the oppositional party would do any better. I'd be interested in seeing how much difference they could actually make.

Ptichka said:

Have some friends in France and Germany. In both countries, it seems McCain is uniformly portrayed as a senile warmonger, and Obama as the next JFK.

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That's actually so not true. I still have my Spiegel (Germany's leftie weekly magazine) that concentrates on Obama (before he visited Berlin) and warns the readers / the population of too much enthusiasm, criticises his policies concerning the judical system (death penalty), weapons, national security... I also have a collection of articles from El País, Le Monde, El Mundo, The Times, FAZ and NZZ that focussed on his shift to the centre after winning the decisive primaries and criticised those as politcal opportunism.

Some journalists also doubted that Obama could bring real change to the transatlantic relations and, in order to improve these relations, Europe acually has to give and sacrifice more (e.g. in Afghanistan) than during Bush-times.

In this country and in neighbouring countries Obama would probably not run as one of the leftish parties but as one of the centre-right ones. And I think that's why there were lots of people who felt more comfortable with a President Obama then with a President McCain. McCain, especially with Palin, seemed to be - from a central-western-northern European standpoint - so far to the right that lots of people simply didn't understand them, their policies and opinions. Obama seemed more centrish, perhaps a tiny bit to the right. McCain/Palin or one of their guys called Sweden a socialist country, for heaven's sake. McCain was dissing Spain in an interview. Those were true head-scratch moments.

And as far as the press coverage goes - all these newspapers have archives, if you are really interested, see for yourself how they all portrayed McCain as a "senile warmonger". Because I didn't read that very often and I don't think that these generalisations do the European press any justice.

Well I think the point that Decker made above is very true - every other country in the world has been looking at the election at the US because of the importance of the US to world policitcs, economies, wars etc.

Sadly i've read several aticles saying that people here in the UK between the ages of 18 and 30 are sadly very lagging behind the rest of Europe in terms of their interest in politics, especially outside of the UK. I can't remember the statistics but the percetage of that age group who took any interest in politics was tens lower than the lowest country in Europe. I think France led the way with their youth interest in politics closely followed by Spain, Italy and Germany.

A lot of the coverage I have read has had a tendancy to focus on McCain's age and the fact it could be a very real possibility that Sarah Palin could end up being president and how underqualified she would be for the role. A lot of th media here has also focused an awful lot on how little would change from the current buch administration to a McCain administration.

I think many media have parodied McCain as the "senile warmongerer" but have debated both issues of his age and the fact he might be "trigger happy" when it comes to war as serious issues.

The one thing that stands out to me is that race seems to be a much bigger and more polarized opinion in the US than it is here in the UK. Don't get me wrong racism is still very much an issue in the UK but my impression from debatnig this with friends all over the world is that racism is still a massive issue in the US.

Ant

antmanb said:

The one thing that stands out to me is that race seems to be a much bigger and more polarized opinion in the US than it is here in the UK. Don't get me wrong racism is still very much an issue in the UK but my impression from debatnig this with friends all over the world is that racism is still a massive issue in the US.

Ant

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Very interesting obeservation. Why do you think racism is not as a massive issue in the UK as it is in the US?

Bennett said:

Very interesting obeservation. Why do you think racism is not as a massive issue in the UK as it is in the US?

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I honestly cannot say. It might just be the fact it is a much smaller country. I think being a part of Europe which has many different cultures/languages means it is easy (especially with the unification of Europe) to travel around and experience all of these differences and not percieve them as negative.

I have dual nationality - I'm Argentinian and British. Many of my parent's friends and their children are also dual nationality Argentinian and another European nationality. I have never experienced any prejudice as a result of being South American and olive skinned compared to people who are 100% British. I look no different to people from Spain/Italy/Greece.

Friends of my parents - particularly the children in schools have experienced an awful ot of prejudice in the US as a result of them "Latino". Despite one little girl (at the time around 9 or 10) being blonde haired, blue eyed and having an Italian surname, she went through a phase of refusing to speak in spanish at all and not wanting to bring friends home from school. Her mother later found out that her daughter lost her entire set of "friends" at school when one of those "friends" came home and realised that the little girl was from a South American family.

These are but two examples. I have many many more examples of similar situations.

Many friends have often thought that racism in the US is true to the word race. Prejudices are truly based on the race of the person, whereas in the UK i think racism is largely based on biggotry regarding skin colour. One thing I do note is that Britain tends to be less politically correct than the US and i have many friends (in minority groups) who think it helps, afterall (and this is their opinion) if they are black, then they are happy to be identified as such - why wouldn't they, they're proud of their heritage. I have never heard in the UK an equivalent to african-american, i suppose it might be anglo-african?

I think that where political correctness is taken to an extreme it becomes difficult for people to talk honestly about the issues because it becomes difficult to express views without being perceived as being politically incorrect. But if you sweep these things under the carpet and think that racism is solved by not letting people say certain things, then all yuo do is create a society that thinks the problems are solved because it is not talked about. Chastising children for saying politically incorrect thigns teaches them only to not talk about things, rather than actually adressing the issues at hand.

Ant

Wow, thank you Ant for your insightful post with vivid examples! It makes me think a lot.

I agree with your saying that using politically correct language does not necessarily address the deeper issues.

On the other hand, I like it that the US is at least very sensitive about this matter. In Japan, for example, racism is perceived less an issue perhaps merely because there is less racial/ethnic diversity here. Perhaps minorities do not have enough political power to bring all that attention and therefore racism is simply less visible. But this does not mean that racism here is less serious.


Your two examples made me think of the connotation of being "Latino" in the US and that in the UK. Very interesting.

Many friends have often thought that racism in the US is true to the word race. Prejudices are truly based on the race of the person, whereas in the UK i think racism is largely based on biggotry regarding skin colour.

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Do you mean racial/ethnic group membership matters more in the US (and therefore it is more fixed) whereas skin color matters more in the UK (and therefore it is more vague)?

I myself do think that the US is such a race-sensitive society and one's racial/ethnic group membership means really a lot. I wonder if it is because it has been a racialized society with the histories of slavery and the import of cheap labors from foreign countries.


Regarding the connotation/meaning of any given racial/ethnic group membership, however, I think that it is subject to change not only by the location, but also by the time.

One of my profs who is a Japanese American in her 60s is sensitive about racial/ethnic issues and the Japanese concentration camps during WW2 still trigger a lot in her discussions. But being from a much younger generation and also from the mainland Japan, I do not have anyone in my networks who had experienced any serious racism and myself have had no negative experiences due to my Japanese background living in the contemporary North America. I have received no differential treatment in any institutions. As for everyday interactions, I am very often noticed as being a Japanese while I walk around. But this has brought me only positive experiences/encounters. This would be a big change seen from the level of prejudice against Japanese several decades ago. On the other hand, I hear a lot of negative stories from ppl from some other racial/ethnic backgrounds about being discriminated against at institutions and in everyday life.

I liked Obama's saying that he would like to address all sorts of discrimination. I am hoping that his upcoming years contribute not only to changing policies on racial/ethnic disparities, but also to modifying the connotations/meanings of being a racial/ethnic minority.

Bennett said:

On the other hand, I like it that the US is at least very sensitive about this matter. In Japan, for example, racism is perceived less an issue perhaps merely because there is less racial/ethnic diversity here. Perhaps minorities do not have enough political power to bring all that attention and therefore racism is simply less visible. But this does not mean that racism here is less serious.

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I read a very interesting article about passive agressive racism and the fact that making everything "politcally correct" and shaming people out of being racist has merely driven the problem "underground" as it were such that racim still exists as strongly as ever but in a more dangerous way - in that people are more "covert" in their racism, whereas previously you could spot a racist a mile away from things they said. Anyway the article did have many good points ni it and i'm not sure that i can do it justice in summarising it.

Bennett said:

Do you mean racial/ethnic group membership matters more in the US (and therefore it is more fixed) whereas skin color matters more in the UK (and therefore it is more vague)?

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I think that the observation I was making about the UK is that skin colour is the only thing that seems to incite racism - so people with dark skin are the ones who are subject to abuse rather than all non-white skinned people. In the UK racism seems to mostly concentrate around black people and asians (in the UK asians usually meaning people from India, Paksitan and surrounding countries rather than people from south east Asia who are more often described as "oriental"). Everyone else seems more or less accepted.

Bennett said:

I myself do think that the US is such a race-sensitive society and one's racial/ethnic group membership means really a lot. I wonder if it is because it has been a racialized society with the histories of slavery and the import of cheap labors from foreign countries.

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I suppose also the US being such a relatively "young" country - there always seems to be heritage that leads back to other countries and people really take an interest in that heritage and want to be proud of it whether the lineage goes back to africa, asia, europe or anywhere else.

Bennett said:

One of my profs who is a Japanese American in her 60s is sensitive about racial/ethnic issues and the Japanese concentration camps during WW2 still trigger a lot in her discussions. But being from a much younger generation and also from the mainland Japan, I do not have anyone in my networks who had experienced any serious racism and myself have had no negative experiences due to my Japanese background living in the contemporary North America. I have received no differential treatment in any institutions. As for everyday interactions, I am very often noticed as being a Japanese while I walk around. But this has brought me only positive experiences/encounters. This would be a big change seen from the level of prejudice against Japanese several decades ago. On the other hand, I hear a lot of negative stories from ppl from some other racial/ethnic backgrounds about being discriminated against at institutions and in everyday life.

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That is very interesting. I have found that friends of mine who are British born but Japanese parents who came to the UK have always been accepted and not been on the recieving end of racial abuse. Their experience has always been the same as mine - that they are interesting because of their differences and almost exotic!

Ant