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Thread: The Lost Edge

  1. #31
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    If we insist on making this a children's sport,....
    To tell the truth, Joe, I think all sports are children's sports. Pro ballplayers are children who never grew up (that's why they act the way they do.) Adults involved in recreational sports are largely trying to be kids again -- and more power to them.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    (entire post)
    Very thoughtful and intelligent post.

  3. #33
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    The way I see it, the best way to address the problem of injuries would be to adjust the IJS rules in ways that reward and encourage skaters to develop core strength, edge control, and high quality of simple elements at least as much as they encourage flexibility, rotations in the air, and complexity. I have plenty of ideas about how this could be done.
    gkelly, thanks for your post - you've brought up some very interesting points. I think you may be quite right about the nature of the injuries more likely to be suffered under the current system.

    I don't believe there's a perfect solution that will eliminate all stress injuries, but certainly young skaters should be encouraged to learn sound fundamentals before they start doing triples and 2As.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't think that gymnastics is a sport that figure skating should emulate. Gymnastics has a scoring system that no one outside the sport has sufficient interest to try to understand; gymnastics attracts essentially zero TV viewing audience except once every four years and for live competitions attracts only other gymnasts and the families of the competitors; and athletes, especially young girls, who excel in the sport and aspire to elite levels typically inflict serious and permanent physical damage to thier bodies.
    Exactly. The more skating tries to become like gymnastics, the narrow and more marginal its audience will be.

    It's easy to understand the attraction to the gymnastics approach by those who feel skating must be justified as a macho sport, and therefore, the more physically crushing it is, the more brutal, the better. But that will not necessarily make skating more beautiful or appealing. The increased "athleticism" of skating has hardly expanded its audience, has it?

    As far as I've noticed, only occasional accidents happen in figure skating. I believe there is much more in little soccer players.
    Accidents? Eating disorders, for example, generated by young girls trying to artificially delay the natural effects of puberty by starvation, are just a bit more consequential than "accidents," just a bit more devastating than a skinned knee (and are another unwanted inheritance from the gymnastics approach).

  5. #35
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To tell the truth, Joe, I think all sports are children's sports. Pro ballplayers are children who never grew up (that's why they act the way they do.) Adults involved in recreational sports are largely trying to be kids again -- and more power to them.


    You are so right MM - certainly this adult skater feels like a big kid when he skates. Even though my reluctance to fall and slide on my butt is certainly different to when i was a child!

    Ant

  6. #36
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To tell the truth, Joe, I think all sports are children's sports. Pro ballplayers are children who never grew up (that's why they act the way they do.) Adults involved in recreational sports are largely trying to be kids again -- and more power to them.
    I actually diasgree. Some professional athletes may act in an immature manner, but really, to them it's their job, and the ballpark/stadium/rink is their workplace. That's why many of them are not as upset by losing as the fans are, and why players often leave once they are free agents: they are not nearly as emotionally involved as the fans. Recreational sports are really another matter. But the possible underlying psychological and sociological reasons for people's interest in (obsession with?) sports, both as participants and as fans, are really subject for a much longer discussion.

  7. #37
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To tell the truth, Joe, I think all sports are children's sports. Pro ballplayers are children who never grew up (that's why they act the way they do.) Adults involved in recreational sports are largely trying to be kids again -- and more power to them.
    MM, your defence of Figure Skating in calling all sportsmen as children who never grew up is quite alarming. Need I list the names that went on to be President, Professional Government Employees? Could it be you are profiling a large group of Pro Sportsmen? Do you think only academic chidlren can grow up to be proper adults? Maybe we should ban all sports if we are worried so much about the dangers, both physically and apparently, pyschologically.:confused

    The CoP has taken away the freedom Figure Skating had. That's how I read the Rusch article. It has merit, imo. If it is causing dangerous accidents more than before CoP then do away with it. If no more than before, then, let it be.

    :

  8. #38
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    MM, your defence of Figure Skating in calling all sportsmen as children who never grew up is quite alarming. Need I list the names that went on to be President, Professional Government Employees? Could it be you are profiling a large group of Pro Sportsmen? Do you think only academic chidlren can grow up to be proper adults? Maybe we should ban all sports if we are worried so much about the dangers, both physically and apparently, pyschologically.:confused
    Forgive me and correct me, MM, if i have got this wrong but, Joe i don't think you could have miscontrued MM's post more if you tried! The point wasn't how the sports stars go on to achieve things after sports - it's that doing them is a child's game - they learn them as children and grow up in them into adulthood. You need only look at figure skating as one example where elite skaters as the same age as their "ordinary" counterparts aer more naive, child-like, etc having only known - school-rink-school-rink.

    In any event i think there was a certain tongue-in-cheek point of MM's post!

    Ant

  9. #39
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Forgive me and correct me, MM, if i have got this wrong but, Joe i don't think you could have miscontrued MM's post more if you tried! The point wasn't how the sports stars go on to achieve things after sports - it's that doing them is a child's game - they learn them as children and grow up in them into adulthood. You need only look at figure skating as one example where elite skaters as the same age as their "ordinary" counterparts aer more naive, child-like, etc having only known - school-rink-school-rink.

    In any event i think there was a certain tongue-in-cheek point of MM's post!

    Ant
    Yes, Ant - I did get the underlying tongue in cheek remark. I think the point was that all sportsminded children never grow up. Maybe my implication that children involved in academics alone do grow up healthier was questionable. Although that was not mentioned, I just think it should have been. Tenley Albright went on to be a surgeon, she is still interested in figure skating. I don't think that interest is childish.

    What gets sportsminded people at any age, is the challenge it presents. Overcoming obstacles is inherent in all we do. How dangerous is it? Thats a moot question.

    It could be I found the topic going from the sublime to the ridiculous, and wanted to keep it active.

  10. #40
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Yes, Ant - I did get the underlying tongue in cheek remark. I think the point was that all sportsminded children never grow up. Maybe my implication that children involved in academics alone do grow up healthier was questionable. Although that was not mentioned, I just think it should have been. Tenley Albright went on to be a surgeon, she is still interested in figure skating. I don't think that interest is childish.
    No still think that point was never made by MM - it was a leap you made. I think the only point was they are child like for as long as they remain in the sport without ever having a break from it until they get out of it. They may, once they leave the sport (i.e. stop competing at that level) then go on to learn to have a "normal" life and grow up a little, which may or may not include having a successfull career outside of that sport, that was never considered in MM's post though.

    Ant

  11. #41
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Need I list the names that went on to be President...
    Quite true. Especially on the Republican side.

    Gerald Ford was an all-American center on the University of Michigan football team. He was drafted by the Green Bay Packers, but chose to go to Yale Law School instead.

    George Bush senior hit .354 as a first baseman at Yale undergrad and went to two Collegiate World Series. George W. never actually played, but he owned the Texas Rangers major league team.

    Ronald “Dutch” Reagan was a C student at Eureka College, but excelled at football and was the captain of the swimming team. Later he portrayed “The Gipper” in the famous sports movie “Knute Rockne, All American.”

    Teddy Roosevelt was a champion boxer at Harvard and continued his interest in the sport after he was elected President. He staged boxing matches in the Oval Office with members of his cabinet. In one such bout, in 1908, he got hit in the face, suffered a detached retina, and was blind in one eye the rest of his life.

    Michelle Kwan, Republican candidate in the 2028 U.S. Presidential election,...

  12. #42
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    No still think that point was never made by MM - it was a leap you made. I think the only point was they are child like for as long as they remain in the sport without ever having a break from it until they get out of it. They may, once they leave the sport (i.e. stop competing at that level) then go on to learn to have a "normal" life and grow up a little, which may or may not include having a successfull career outside of that sport, that was never considered in MM's post though.

    Ant
    OK, I took a leap. I read too much into it. Sorry about that.

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