Coaching Trends

shopgirl543 · Nov 16, 2008

There seems to be an emerging trend among the singles skaters qualifying for Nationals. In the past, for both ice dance and pairs there seems to be certain coaches that always produce multiple national competitors. For pairs, the hot spot is now Broadmoor with Dalilah Sappenfield, and has been Delaware in the past. For dance, the most teams are coming from the Ann Arbor camp and the Shpiland/Zoueva camp.

I don’t recall coaches of single skaters having a significantly large number of skaters qualify for the nationals. However, it appears that Tom Zakrajsek and Mark Mitchell/Peter Johansson will each have an astounding number of 9 singles skaters competing at this years nationals in Cleveland.

Do you think the skaters of such coaches are so successful because of the competitive nature of the training environment, with the skaters pushing each other to excel? On the other hand, there could be issues with jealousy and having to play second fiddle.

I just think this is so impressive given the difficulty for any skater to make it through regionals and sectionals.

Tonichelle · Nov 16, 2008

Frank Carrol/Ken Kaj-however his last name is spelled had several single ladies and men at nationals in 2005, 2006...

shopgirl543 · Nov 16, 2008

Tonichelle said:
Frank Carrol/Ken Kaj-however his last name is spelled had several single ladies and men at nationals in 2005, 2006...

I think they only had Evan, Bebe, and Danielle Kahle over such period. Ken worked separately with Becky Hughes and Braden Overett.

It looks as though Frank usually only teaches senior competitors. I can't remember the last time I saw him coaching a novice at nationals.

waxel · Nov 16, 2008

Frank and Ken both must be sweating it. Their skaters seem to be tanking.

Tonichelle · Nov 16, 2008

shopgirl543 said:
I think they only had Evan, Bebe, and Danielle Kahle over such period. Ken worked separately with Becky Hughes and Braden Overett.

It looks as though Frank usually only teaches senior competitors. I can't remember the last time I saw him coaching a novice at nationals.

between the two of them they had enough for me to notice :laugh:

Frank seems to hand pick the top scorer and leaves the rest to Ken... I still think Evan's creating buzz when Tim was having issues with boots and health had a lot more to do with Frank's booting Tim over to Audrey than Frank will admit.

merrybari · Nov 16, 2008

waxel said:
Frank and Ken both must be sweating it. Their skaters seem to be tanking.

Not quite!! This early in the season is way too soon to be making that assumption.

Evan is coming off a life changing injury before worlds that had him totally revising his skating and outlook. He learns from every event and moves onward and upward. It will take time for it all to gel.

Tonichelle · Nov 16, 2008

"life changing" ? Did I miss something last season?

shopgirl543 · Nov 16, 2008

merrybari said:
Evan is coming off a life changing injury before worlds that had him totally revising his skating and outlook. He learns from every event and moves onward and upward. It will take time for it all to gel.

I think Evan's problems before worlds last year were more psychological, than physical.

Tonichelle · Nov 17, 2008

well, he does have a nagging hip & knee injury that keep flairing up...

momjudi · Nov 17, 2008

Weren't Evan's injury prior to Worlds a dislocated shoulder and elbow from a fall?. He did recover in time to skate in SOI.

lcd · Nov 25, 2008

To address what I perceived to be the original thesis of the thread... there would seem to be many different factors that go into why certain coaches or centers have clusters of success.. with many of them obvious (including the environment that you mention)

If you look at how many elite sports evolve successful athletes - in particular from other countries - it is obvious that the training center model (e.g., on a national level) is just the best way to leverage resources and engender success. The USA diving program recognizes this - and has everyone with a realistric shot at Worlds/Olympics working together in Indianapolis. I the trade offs are evident, but in the end, the benefits outweight the challenges (competition for attention etc) to make it such an obvious argument for most athletes... not all... obviously, but most

And add Tammy Gambill to the list...

shopgirl543 · Nov 25, 2008

lcd said:
And add Tammy Gambill to the list...

Yes, Tammy always does have a large contingent competing at nationals each year. Do you know how many skaters she had qualify for nationals this year?

Also, does she work in conjunction with other coaches, or is she the sole coach of most of her skaters?

Sylvia · Nov 25, 2008

shopgirl543 said:
Yes, Tammy always does have a large contingent competing at nationals each year. Do you know how many skaters she had qualify for nationals this year?

Seven (1 senior man, 2 junior men, 2 junior ladies, 2 novice ladies).

Also, does she work in conjunction with other coaches, or is she the sole coach of most of her skaters?

Pretty much the sole coach, although Braden Overett seems to have taken on an assistant coaching role with Gambill this year, in addition to choreographing for many of her skaters.

shopgirl543 said:
It looks as though Frank usually only teaches senior competitors. I can't remember the last time I saw him coaching a novice at nationals.

Carroll coached a junior man at Pacific Coast Sectionals this year (John Lomazzi finished 5th).

libby · Nov 25, 2008

momjudi said:
Weren't Evan's injury prior to Worlds a dislocated shoulder and elbow from a fall?. He did recover in time to skate in SOI.

He was skating two full programs a night on the SOI tour only ten days after his arm injury occurred (heck, skaters are routinely off the ice longer than that with sprained ankles), so I would hardly call it "life-changing", despite his recent interview with USA Today in which he professed how glad he is to just "finally be able to skate again!" and fervently discussed how the supposedly nearly career-ending injury altered his entire outlook upon life. :laugh:

Back on topic: does anyone have more skaters in their stable than Nikolai Morozov? I have no idea how he makes time for all of them. He has Nobunari Oda, Daisuke Murakami, Fumie Suguri and Miki Ando of the Japanese team, as well as American Adam Rippon and several ice dance teams such as Zadorozhniuk & Verbillo and Fraser & Lukanin.

He certainly seems to have a lot of success with his singles skaters, at least, and has no problems attracting new ones. There was a recent YouTube video of him yelling angrily at Miki during a practice that she should just go home and stop wasting his time if she didn't want to skate that had her in tears, yet she was just quoted by the Japanese press gushing about him, saying that she "cannot live without my coach" and that she wants to "marry him" when she is done skating (not to fan the flames of the Miki & Nikolai hookup rumors - most likely she was being hyperbolic

).

Spun Silver · Nov 26, 2008

libby said:
He certainly seems to have a lot of success with his singles skaters, at least, and has no problems attracting new ones. There was a recent YouTube video of him yelling angrily at Miki during a practice that she should just go home and stop wasting his time if she didn't want to skate that had her in tears, yet she was just quoted by the Japanese press gushing about him, saying that she "cannot live without my coach" and that she wants to "marry him" when she is done skating (not to fan the flames of the Miki & Nikolai hookup rumors - most likely she was being hyperbolic ).

Major red flag.

Miki, please get a new coach, NOW.

Okami · Nov 26, 2008

libby said:
There was a recent YouTube video of him yelling angrily at Miki during a practice that she should just go home and stop wasting his time if she didn't want to skate that had her in tears, (...).

This is taken out of context (and so was the video clip). At that session Miki had problems with her jumps. She was already in tears because she couldn't land them to save her life. Morozov was yelling that she can do it, that she should stop attempting triples and do some doubles to get her rhythm back. Miki refused to do doubles, she continued attempting triples and kept falling - really dangerously. i don't remember Nikolai screaming about "wasting time" - then again, his English is so mangled that I could troubles understanding anything... But if at that point he screamed that she's wasting time, I wouldn't be surprised - she was wasting time by not listening to her coach and just hurting herself in the process.

Miki said many times that she has motivation problems and considered retirement many times. It was Nikolai Morozov that convinced her that she can overcome her injuries and keep going. If it wasn't for Morozov, Miki might not be skating at all. And that would make me sad, because I really like her, both as a person and as a skater.

Not only Miki, but all his students speak warmly of him in all the interviews. He manages to motivate skaters and help them overcome their injuries and technical difficulties. and he seems to get along very well with his skaters and speaks of them with respect. If the students are flocking to him, he must be doing something right.

It might seem shocking for some people that a coach may yell at athletes and still get along well with them, but it seems natural for me. I practiced karate for many yeras and I'm very much used to being yelled at, or being paifully hit when I let my attention wander (and I returned that in kind when I moved to higher kyus

). And yet I absolutely loved my senseis and sempais, and the entire dojo. The best days of my life.

libby · Nov 26, 2008

Okami, I wasn't calling Morozov a bad coach, just illustrating how devoted his many skaters appear to be to him. Clearly, he would not have so many of them if he weren't doing something right, and Miki would not be gushing about him in interviews if he were just a bully all the time. My point in mentioning the video clip was just to show that she and his other skaters are loyal to him and happy with his coaching despite it not always being sunshine and roses.

mjames · Nov 26, 2008

Libby you are correct to question Morozov's time management. Don't forget he left Fumie after her first practice session at Skate Canada. She brought Japan the silver medal without him. (I must add I loved her short costume) Oda has not been training with him since September, and the American Rippon trained alone in NJ between SA and CoR. I do not see evidence of this happiness or loyalty in his stable. Ando seems to be the only devoted student.

Linny · Nov 26, 2008

Why some coaches?

Perhaps certain coaches attract the best students because they are the "golden coaches" who are politically connected. Maybe an already excellent skater figures that he or she will have a better shot at gaining points in a very subjective sport if he or she shows up with a coach who is known for coaching champions, so he or she switches to that coach. Not every skater is going to be like Brian Boitano who stayed with the same coach all the way through the levels.
Linny

Sinclare · Nov 27, 2008

I would not define Morozov as a “golden coach”. His star is fading. He has only taken on skaters who were developed by someone else. There was a time when all of the top skaters in the world went to him for their programs. Now it seems that most of the top skaters are going to Canada (Wilson, Browning and Nichol). Oda’s programs were created by Lori Nichol not Morozov. Morozov’s fame came a few years back when it was fashionable to smoke in restaurants and acceptable to chase your secretary around your desk. Those behaviors are no longer acceptable or in style. I believe his style is no longer acceptable or even desired by most of the top skaters.

Coaching Trends

shopgirl543

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

shopgirl543

waxel

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

merrybari

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

shopgirl543

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

momjudi

lcd

Match Penalty

shopgirl543

Sylvia

libby

Match Penalty

Spun Silver

Okami

libby

Match Penalty

mjames

Linny

Sinclare

Similar threads

Connect with us