Who would have had a +.3 GOE in jumps?

**dorispulaski** · 09-15-2003, 06:25 PM

This requires the right edge in, a difficult or unique entry, good height and distance, and good flow out.

Somebody is going to have to put together an examples tape. Here are some suggestions:

Considering the requirement of a difficult entry:

Brian Boitano 3 lutz from spread eagle with hand over head.

Dorothy Hamill, Spread Eagle double axel spread eagle out.

Irina Slutskaya Triple Loop from running three turns

Yours??

dpp

**hockeyfan228** · 09-15-2003, 06:40 PM

(When landed correctly

)

Caroline Kostner, 3 turn into 3 Loop

Julia Sebestyen, footwork into 3 Flip. (She'd need a different entrance into her 3 Lutz to qualify.)

Timothy Goebel, spread eagle into 3 Axel. Possibly hydroplane into 3 Loop.

Ilia Klimkin, camel spin direction 1, camel spin direction 2, into 3 Sal.

Fleming also did spread eagle into 2 Axel into spread eagle.

**Verbalgirl77** · 09-15-2003, 06:45 PM

Just my opinion, I'm no expert, but I'd go with Matt's spread eagle into 3axel and hydroblade into 3lutz.

Kristi's split jump into 3 toe (maybe)

Mark Mitchell's back spiral into 3lutz (maybe)

Paul's forward spiral into 3 flip (maybe)

Maria used to do a back spiral into a 2 axel (in that techno Phantom of the Opera SP she used to do have @'94-'95). Dick Button liked it, anyway.

That's a good question.

**Lanie** · 09-15-2003, 07:28 PM

Sasha Cohen's Ina into a triple Salchow, maybe... Sarah's back spiral into a... I forgot, triple flip?

I immediately thought of Irina's threes into a triple loop.

**mzheng** · 09-15-2003, 07:35 PM

To meet all the critirias in ONE jump, I suspect if there is any triple jumps in lady's field will warantee +3 GOE.

Irina's jump, has good high and disstance, but lacking of good flow in, out of the jump.

Michelle's jumps usually has good flow in/out of edge but lacking of high and distance.

Sarah's lacking of fully rotation.

Sasha's just as michelle lacking of high and distance. Not to mention some times she landed on wrong edge.

......

**coppelia** · 09-15-2003, 08:02 PM

I think Kostner's 3loop could get her +3.

Also, Kurt's spread eagle into triple sal, triple loo (am I remembering that right?) would have gotten a nice bonus.

**Ptichka** · 09-16-2003, 09:17 AM

In pairs, some of Shen & Zhao's jumps definitely.

**tdnuva** · 09-16-2003, 09:20 AM

As I'm not good in recognizing the different steps before the jumps I'm not sure about the entry...

but concerning height and distance I'd say Robin Cousins would have had good chances... :D

**dorispulaski** · 09-16-2003, 11:36 AM

I totally love both Klimkin's camel/camel salchow and Tim's hydroblade/loop, but they often lose speed going into the jumps so they aren't as high or as large as they could do without the difficult entrances. Would they still qualify as +.3 (of course when landed. Both Tim and Ilia have missed these 2 elements from time to time).?

Tim's spread eagle/3 axel might make it if he does it as he did at World's.

Also, does anyone know how GOE goes on combinations? I have read that it goes as the GOE of the most difficult jump. So does Plush not get his full marks for his 4/3/3 just because the GOE goes on the first jump which is everything it should be as a jump, except having an ordinary entrance? Does that make it +.2 instead?

(I know Peggy did the same SE/2a/SE combo as Dorothy, but Dorothy did it Better!)

Also, JMO, but I think Irina's running 3's into 3 loop is better than Carolina's. Also Yebin does this stunt as her jump out of f/w in the SP. But Irina's is better than either Yebin and Carolina, I think.

Any more suggestions?

dpp

**Joesitz** · 09-16-2003, 12:08 PM

Doris - I sometimes think we get too involved with speed and in naming skaters with speed we do not always agree.

In the case of Ilia Klimpkins camel to triple and many others who prefect a triple with a move, one should realize that a slow entry into a jump is more difficult than a fast one!! That's the law of physics (I do hope Mathman agrees).

Check out Irina's series of three turns into a triple loop. It is executed very slowly, but beautifully, and why not? Why would we want to see it any other way?

Joe

**Ptichka** · 09-16-2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by DORISPULASKI
Also, does anyone know how GOE goes on combinations? I have read that it goes as the GOE of the most difficult jump. So does Plush not get his full marks for his 4/3/3 just because the GOE goes on the first jump which is everything it should be as a jump, except having an ordinary entrance? Does that make it +.2 instead?

There is a big difference from CoP persperctive between combinations and sequences. The former are encouraged, the latter are discourged.

For combinations they add the values of all jumps, and apply the GOE for the most difficult one. So for Plush's 4/3/3, he will get values of all 3 jumps; in terms of evaluation, the whole combo will be evaluated, not each jump seperately.

For sequences, on the other hand, they only add the values of the two most difficult jumps, apply the GOE for the most difficult one, and multiply end result by 0.8. This should really put a lid on some of the longer sequences that Irina does. Though I suspect that if the judges are not allowed to give full credit to the third jump in the sequence, they will at least be more likely to give the whole sequence a bigger GOE.

**luenatic** · 09-16-2003, 03:52 PM

According to Joe Inman's answer in FSU, Chengjiang Li's Quad Toe/Triple Toe combo is a +3 example.

**shine** · 09-16-2003, 04:03 PM

How about Matt Savoie's hydroblading into 3lutz and spread eagle RIGHT into the 3axel. He not only lands these jumps but also has good flow out of them.

**PrincessLeppard** · 09-16-2003, 04:08 PM

ITA about Li's 4t/3t. When he hits it, it's spectacular.

In Plush's SPs, he usually does footwork in a 3lutz (see MJ and Adagio), and just steps up into the jump, no set up, great height, and his trademark gorgeous flowing landing. +3! but come on, he's so fantastic, shouldn't it be a +4?