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Thread: Entry Edge on the 3Loop

  1. #1
    Rinkside
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    Entry Edge on the 3Loop

    I have a question about the 3Loop.
    I've seen lots of talk about URs this year, and I've always thought that the 3Loop was the easiest to UR, NOT because of the exit edge but because of the entry edge. The slower the momentum going in, the easier it is to do the first 1/2rotation even before the blade leaves the ice. This is even more evident when you try to add a 3Loop in combination, and why(I suspect) many of the
    3Loops in combination could be downgraded. You see this to a lesser extent in a slow 2Axle as well. Do the judges take this into account? Is this why there is so much more attention to this jump this year?
    Maybe this is why there seems to be disagreement amoung the posters about which jumps are judged UR.

    By the way, thanks for all the updates for the GP events. I really like this forum.

  2. #2
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    welcome to the board, tollerfan!

  3. #3
    Rinkside
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    How embarassing!!
    I just read the mao asada thread that told me more about prerotation than I ever suspected.

  4. #4
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    no worries, personally I hope someone answers your question here anyway without prejudice or one skater over the other.

  5. #5
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Welcome, Tollerfan. (I like your name! )

  6. #6
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    yes, the 2 or triple loop is difficult because it is hard to get enough height in the jump to complete the revountions. Skaters who are getting edge calls on the flip switch to the next hardest jumps which they don't have edge issues with...the loop. Problem is that loops are prone to downgrades, which are worse than edge calls.

  7. #7
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    yes, the 2 or triple loop is difficult because it is hard to get enough height in the jump to complete the revountions.
    miki jumps higher on her loop as the second jump of the combo than the first jump, which is amazing. i am sorry that she still got URs though.

  8. #8
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    We've discussed prerotations before as opposed to underrotations.
    Some fans think a prerotation in a loop is kind of an illusion to the nitpickers like me. Apparently for edge jumps pre rotations are necessary .

    My feeling has been where ever a skater goes airborne that's the spot to land after commpleting the air rotations. I doubt there will ever be a definitive answer on this matter.

  9. #9
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Well, on technical matters I do not even qualitfy as an armchair expert. But what I got out of our lengthy discussions about this topic is something like this. For an ideal loop jump, let's say you begin your jump with your blade at 6:00. By the time your blade lifts completely off the ice a fraction of a second later, it is about 3:00 (for a counterclockwise jumper ). Then ideally you do about two-and-three-quarters turns in the air and land back at 6:00.

    In the event, skaters hardly ever achieve this ideal. The "pre-rotation" is more like 3/8 of a turn or more, with up to 1/4 underrotation on the landing.

    The rules permit this (up to 1/2 turn pre-rotation of the take-off and up to 1/4 turn underrotation of the landing), before any penalty sets in.

    When a loop is the second jump of a combo, it seems like even more pre-rotation is the norm. That would make sense, because you are turning while you are landing and you keep on turning while you are gathering yourself for the second jump.

    Once in a while, though, someone does just pop right up on the second jump. That looks really cool and probably gets them an extra point in the GOE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    My feeling has been where ever a skater goes airborne that's the spot to land after commpleting the air rotations.
    The reason I don't think you can do that is because then you would land with your blade sideways and you would not be able to hold your landing edge.

    If you are going backwards in the direction from 6:00 to 12:00 as you begin the jump, but don't get airborn until 3:00, then three complete revolutions would put your blade at 3:00 while your momentum throught the air would still be in the 12:00 direction. You would be going North, but your blade would be East-West.

    (Anyway, it seems that way to be -- always reserving the rioght to be wrong, of course.)
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-29-2008 at 12:19 AM.

  10. #10
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I just do not like making the Sport easier and allowing prerotations to rule.

    I think Tara as a former roller skater where the friction is a huge non slip unlike it is on ice, she did perfect take offs. She brought that to the ice. Sometimes her landings were ok and other times questionable, but that's another subject.

    The Rule of MyThumb: if you can not do an element properly don't do it.

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