Ladies LP

Tinymavy15 said:

Lets not bring Sasha into this. She was in a class of her own. There will never be anyone like her.

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R u serious? I was so bored with Sasha's skating I could only endure through her short program. Same goes for Michelle Kwan too. Sasha rarely, I mean once in a blue moon, skated a clean program and even then she looked nervous throughout the entire program, making ME nervous watching HER. Also, I didn't like either Sasha's or Michelle's physique (short legs and arms) to find their skating aesthetically pleasing at all.

Tinymavy15 said:

Lets not bring Sasha into this. She was in a class of her own. There will never be anyone like her.

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I didn't bring Sasha into it. Lucina said: "(Akiko and Asada) did well but pcs is (overscored), especially Asada.62..oh my god..she is not Sasha." This referred to PCS, not TES, and it's a valid opinion. ltcaip responded in typical Sasha-hater fashion: "Exactly, she is in fact way better than Sasha... " I put him in his place. Mao is "way better" in technical elements, but certainly not presentation/artistry, and that was the point of the comment he ridiculed.

I think Mao and Yu-Na are fantastic skaters and have more technical ability than Sasha or most skaters ever managed. I also LIKE Mao's presentation, she's gotten a lot better in that respect, and I enjoyed her skates at NHK a lot. But there's no comparison to Sasha in artistry.

And as far as "there will never be anyone like her" -- you're probably right, because we have a system now that all but ignores artistry. I still see some beautiful skates, but most of the time they are from the older group of veteran skaters, who generally don't have the point scoring ability to compete in CoP. There was a list of ladies who will probably retire in or before 2010. We'll be losing most or all of the remaining skaters that have ever competed before CoP. I'll be very sad on that day...

Particle Man said:

I also LIKE Mao's presentation, she's gotten a lot better in that respect, and I enjoyed her skates at NHK a lot. But there's no comparison to Sasha in artistry.

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Sasha's skating never inspired me so I guess that means I didn't see this thing you describe as 'artistry' in her skating. If Sasha were still around and everyone skated like her, I wouldn't be a skating fan. Thank God for Mao and Yu-na.

come on, neither Yu Na nor Cohen is skating here. :indiff:

Red Dog said:

come on, neither Yu Na nor Cohen is skating here. :indiff:

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Okay, let's talk about Ashley. Just saw her LP to Spartacus. Awesome skate! She's got so much speed and seamless flow across the ice. She's got musicality and the facial expressions too. I think once she masters all her jumps up to par with Mao and Yu-na and consistency and quality, she'll have the edge over them in artistry and presentation.

Frankly, I was a bit disappointed with ladies top skaters' programs and performances this season so far (you know which two I'm talking about) mainly because my expectations were so high of them. So Ashley is a breath of fresh air and I think she can beat both of them.

Red Dog said:

come on, neither Yu Na nor Cohen is skating here. :indiff:

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I'm so sorry. I'm the first person who mentioned Cohen.
However, I can't still admit Adada's 62 pcs in spite of under new judging system.
I know her good tranisition but little choreography and music connection.

That's why I mentioned Cohen.

bekalc said:

I don't think Mao can do her 3 axel in the short program legally... I agree though about her bringing back the 2 axel/3toe. It carries less risk and gives her the same points.
My jump layout for her was
3axel /2toe
3 axel
3flip/3loop
3 lutz
3 salchow
3 flip
2 axel/3toe/2 loop

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I like this jump layout, but I'll believe it when I see her land two 3a and two 3-3 combinations in competition. This layout can basically compete with most male skaters. Mao's a beast, if she can pull this off.

I was REALLY pleasantly surprised with Akiko Suzuki's LP.... what a refreshing skate to see. And it's nice to see Mao back on track. However, I get a sneaky suspicion that the team behind her isn't very concerned about this season. It seems more like they are trying to build up her jumping arsenal and raise her levels and see how the judges react than trying to put together a program that would clinch the world title again (a medal she already has... so it wouldn't surprise me if they were more worried about the Olympics than this year's Worlds). I think we are seeing a lot of lower value jumps that Mao normally leaves out of her performance so she gets them rock-solid by Vancouver in case any of them are thrown into her program then. The 3A combo seems like it's another experimentation, like they want to see if Mao can pull of a 3A-3T with practice over the course of the next 1+ year, and if not, she will be back to her 3F-3T or 3F-3R. Mao's step sequences keep getting better and better... I'll be very surprised if she doesn't have a step sequence that isn't ratified level 4 next season. I was also surprised to see that Mao didn't do a single 3Lz in her FS.... but I've seen recent practice videos of her landing them very cleanly and taking off on the right edge, so she must be practicing it for something. I bet by the time Worlds comes around, she will put her 3Lz back in the program, and probably another 3-3. Right now, if she is still having edge problems occassionally, it makes more sense for her to put in 3Lo or 3S instead of 3Lz, because she will get more points out of them with +GOEs, than the mandatory -1 for the wrong edge take off the 3Lz.

Everything about her two skates in the GP make me think that she and her team are somewhat experimenting... seeing how far they can push the levels and will start substituting harder things gradually, so she can add them with confidence that they have had extra practice instead of being overwhelmed all at once by an exceedingly difficult program right off the bat.

I could see them aiming for a program for the Olympics that looks something like this... (jump-wise)

Triple Axel w/ Double Toe

3A 8.20
3A+2T 10.45
3S 4.5
3F+3Lo x 11.55
3Lz x 6.6
3F + 2Lo + 2Lo x 9.35
2A x 3.85

OR

Triple Axel with Triple Toe

3A 8.20
3A+3T 11.5
3S 4.5
3F+2Lo+2Lo x 9.35
3F x 6.1
3Lz+2Lo x 9.3
2A x 3.85

OR

Triple Axel with no combo

3A 8.20
3A 8.20
3S x 4.5
3F+2T x 7.48
3F+3Lo x 11.55
3Lz x 6.6
2A+2Lo+2Lo x 7.85

Only one Triple Axel

3A 8.20
3F+3T 10.5
2A 3.5
3Lo x 5.5
3F+3Lo x 11.55
3Lz+2Lo+2Lo x 9.9
2A x 3.85

Anyone else have any ideas how they would try to max out Mao's jumps for points?

I tried to keep it a bit realistic... there is no way Mao could pull off a 3A, a 3A combo and then lots of other triple-triples.

If Mao chooses to do two triple axels and no combinations there, than her second triple axel becomes a sequence and she loses some points... Plus one of those 3 axels counts as a combo.

Cynthia Phaneuf LP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAxoaw2C6w0

bethissoawesome said:

However, I get a sneaky suspicion that the team behind her isn't very concerned about this season. It seems more like they are trying to build up her jumping arsenal and raise her levels and see how the judges react than trying to put together a program that would clinch the world title again (a medal she already has... so it wouldn't surprise me if they were more worried about the Olympics than this year's Worlds).

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I think that Tatiana had a similar strategy before. One year before the Nagano Olympics, she assigned a very difficult program, Romeo & Juliet, for Ilia Kulik. That year, he could not achieve a satisfactory level of performance at the world, but next year he won the Olympic gold medal.

bethissoawesome said:

I could see them aiming for a program for the Olympics that looks something like this... (jump-wise)

Triple Axel w/ Double Toe

3A 8.20
3A+2T 10.45
3S 4.5
3F+3Lo x 11.55
3Lz x 6.6
3F + 2Lo + 2Lo x 9.35
2A x 3.85

OR

Triple Axel with Triple Toe

3A 8.20
3A+3T 11.5
3S 4.5
3F+2Lo+2Lo x 9.35
3F x 6.1
3Lz+2Lo x 9.3
2A x 3.85

OR

Triple Axel with no combo

3A 8.20
3A 8.20
3S x 4.5
3F+2T x 7.48
3F+3Lo x 11.55
3Lz x 6.6
2A+2Lo+2Lo x 7.85

Only one Triple Axel

3A 8.20
3F+3T 10.5
2A 3.5
3Lo x 5.5
3F+3Lo x 11.55
3Lz+2Lo+2Lo x 9.9
2A x 3.85

Anyone else have any ideas how they would try to max out Mao's jumps for points?

I tried to keep it a bit realistic... there is no way Mao could pull off a 3A, a 3A combo and then lots of other triple-triples.

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I agree about the idea her team is tring everything new since she doesn't have to care that much about getting world championship this year. Maybe she will change her jumping outline in every competition this year, you know.:chorus:

fourclover said:

Sasha's skating never inspired me so I guess that means I didn't see this thing you describe as 'artistry' in her skating.

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That's fine. Many people in the world also hate figure skating. I feel sad for them, and I feel sad you didn't get inspired by someone like Sasha, but in each case, it's not something I can change. It's their (and your) loss.

fiercemao said:

Cynthia Phaneuf LP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAxoaw2C6w0

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Thanks for the link. Cynthia actually looked better than I expected. But she's gotta stop popping those jumps — it's better to fall under COP than do singles like that. I don't know if she's got a shot at the silver in Canada this year or not, much as I'd love to send her to worlds over Leung — I actually think Cynthia would score better, even if she had problems (which she probably would). Her overall skating skills are far superior and her programs much more pleasing to the eye. But Leung always seems to have her best competition of the year at nationals...

bekalc said:

I don't think Mao can do her 3 axel in the short program legally...

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She can. What she can't do is repeat the required 2A or do a solo 3A and a 3A in combination. http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/SinglesSPElements.pdf (Other rules suggest that she can't do a 3A-3A sequence, but even if it were allowed, she would have better options.)

I agree though about her bringing back the 2 axel/3toe. It carries less risk and gives her the same points.

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Right, several ladies have gotten credit for it already this season, including some juniors. It's just smarter to do 2A+3T and 3F rather than 3F+3T and 2A. That's especially true for Mao since she is already doing 3A+2T and 3F+3Lo as it's easier and meshes better with the rest of her jump arsenal.

Particle Man said:

That's fine. Many people in the world also hate figure skating. I feel sad for them, and I feel sad you didn't get inspired by someone like Sasha, but in each case, it's not something I can change. It's their (and your) loss.

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Maybe there was someone else who inspired them?
Different strokes for different folks? Sasha was never my favorite either; we all like different things (in this case, different skaters).

I haven't had a chance to watch the LPs yet but I'm looking forward to doing so before starting my paper!

I'm annoyed how Yukari's 3Flip later in the program, where she does the wonderful arm position when she lands, keeps getting downgraded. She is purposefully slowing the rotation down slightly so that she can safely land with her arms like that. I don't think the one she did at the past Worlds or this competition were more than 1/4 short but even if slightly were, the tech controller should see what she's doing there and give the benefit of the doubt.

Now, on something that IS her fault (or her choreographer/coach perhaps), I still don't like how front-loaded this program is. 5 jumping passes in the first half of the program and another double axel instead of second Triple Salchow? Throwing points away.

Her footwork sequence takes up too much time (this has become the norm with the current CoP rules). She should get that re-choreographed to travel across the ice faster and then move a jump pass into the second half of the program.

Blades of Passion said:

Now, on something that IS her fault (or her choreographer/coach perhaps), I still don't like how front-loaded this program is. 5 jumping passes in the first half of the program and another double axel instead of second Triple Salchow? Throwing points away.

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She is playing it safe right now. To me it seems like she is planning a 3S-3something combination later in the season, replacing the 3S-2T she is doing now as the third jump pass. She keeps her options open.
A part from that, I love both her LP and SP. So wonderful music and it fits perfectly to her. I almost completly forgive her the leg-wrap because of her wonderful style.. and I think everyone else does

fourclover said:

Frankly, I was a bit disappointed with ladies top skaters' programs and performances this season so far (you know which two I'm talking about) mainly because my expectations were so high of them. So Ashley is a breath of fresh air and I think she can beat both of them.

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I suppose we're all entitled to fantasize......

I thought Ashley looked good also. She just seemed a little frantic to keep up with her music in the LP. Other then that I think she has a bright future. She is not quite at the level of Mao or Yu Na, but I think she can challenge in the future.