Men's LP | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Men's LP

propronia

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
I agree Oda's PCS is too high. Maybe the judges were impressed by a clean 4-3-3 he landed in the warmup. The inflation of GOE is within expectations, not so outrageous as TEB Men (especially Chan).
 

taylorfax

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Have not seen the thing yet but couldn't help getting up and checking the scores. Yay Johnny! Just had a fever and now making it to the GPF! :thumbsup: Trooper.
 

Okami

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
I'm delighted to see Nobunari win. :clap:

He said in an interview yesterday that never, in his entire career, had he felt so nervous before the competition as here at NHK. And considering that there were times when he claimed being so nervous that he couldn't hear his own music, only the thumping of his own heart, this means pretty darn nervous.

I'm glad that Nobunari landed a second 3A, even though he hadn't planned it (too bad no combo). And in spite of changing the jump layout on the fly, he didn't do anything CoP-stupid (except maybe not combo-ing that second 3A, but it wasn't a very costly mistake).

I haven't seen the LP yet, but IMHO the 8.00 for SS was very well deserved. I've seen him live at Nebelorn and KSM, and he could just skate around in circles while wearing a potato sack on his head, and I'd still would have given him 8.00. His edges and speed are absolutely out of this world.
The rest might have been a bit generous, but looking down on the PCS/GOES for other skaters, they were a bit generous as well. I guess nobody peed in the judges cornflakes in this event, that's all. ;)

Good for Johnny and Yannick! I'm a bit disappointed for Takahito; in a recent competition he placed just behind Nobunari. I hope he'll be able to medal here. IMHO he deserves a bit higher PCS... He's actually the one whom the judges might have suspected of messing with their cornflakes. :laugh: Then again, I haven't seen his performance yet, so maybe he got nervous and didn't skate as well as at West Japan.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Posero

Good skating. Wonderful height and landing on the quad. Wonderful height and not so wonderful landing on 3A. I am a bit surprised that he got plus GOE on this 3A.

I like his speed. Somehow I may be more impressed by his speed than by his edges. I think he is a powerful skater.

It looked like he was somewhat losing the focus and speed after the first half. Mistakes followed.

Fab spins.

I like the music that suited him very well. His overall presentation was wonderful and he had a lot of exciting moments that attracted the audience. But I feel that there were some blank moments around the middle and towards the end that left the audience less engaged. But overall, it was great. Congrats:clap:

Johnny

He looked so pale. I am sorry about his cold. But I loved his skating very much.

A fantastic 3A-2T followed by another fab 3A. He had great height and beautiful flow on both jumps. Esp. the first 3A was absolutely fantastic. I think that he should have gotten even better GOE on these. Oda received 1.6 on his 3A at SP. I thought that Johnny's 3A-2T here was even better.

Then 2A followed. It was kind of a bizarre jump layout. But it was very clean.

I really love this music on him. And his elegance and beautiful positions in everything. I especially love his spins. Very beautiful. I also found both of his steps very lovely as always.

His Sal looked very easy and had a wonderful flow. His loop out of steps looked a little bit tight at the landing but seemed fine.

He had a most beautiful 3 lutz three jump combo, which I thought should have deserved better GOE. But I am sorry about the double lutz and the single flip. I did not realize that these two mistakes could cost him so much. I am sad that he did not win with this clean performance.

Yet, it was such a beautiful, mature, elegant performance. He received TONS of presents and flowers from his fans.:clap: I am happy that he had great showing for his Japanese fans. Go Johnny!!!

Oda

Congrats to a wonderful comeback!!! I was worried about his nerves for various reasons. But he looked very calm and relaxed, which was wonderful for him.

He missed the quad. It was fully rotated but the landing was not close and he had to stepout. I hope he lands his quad next times because it seems to be getting more and more consistent in practices.

I am surprised that he missed 3A because he tends to be pretty consistent on that jump. I feel that he might be distracted by the quad as many men do.

He had a nice 3S combo but it looked much lower than his jumps in SP even though he received 1.0 GOE.

Then the next 3A looked okay. He could not do a combo so that I thought that this might bring another zayak, but it did not.

He also had another stepout on the last jump of his three jump combo. So he had nearly fallen three times in total. He received -1 deduction for a fall. But I am not sure which one was counted as a fall. All of them looked similar in the ways he stepped out.

As I said, I felt that Johnny might have won because Johnny was clean. But I understand that doubling and singling two jumps hurt a lot more than nearly fallen, but fully rotated three jumps. Besides, Johnny did not max his combos. ETA: Johnny's base value was 61.87 and Oda's 76.77. Johnny received about 8 points on GOE, Oda just a bit more than 1 point. Yet, I think that Johnny deserved better PCS than Oda here.

Nice jumps towards the end. I do know if it is just me, but Oda's lutz always looks like a flutz to me.

In terms of the choreos, I think that this music was basically good for him. Somehow he had some blank face and tentative unsureness in his moves during the slow part when he needed to appeal to the judges while dancing towards them. Then his arms and upper body were rather unrelated to each other. His arms looked like Miki's in that sense. His arms had busy, big movements, but his upper body looked like a separate entity, so that the body and arms did not go together. Yet, he was much better in these regards in his SP and EX so that nerves might have gotten the best of him while he danced in his LP.

I thought his spins wonderful as always. Good speed and good centering.

His circular step sequence was rather dull and not very smooth in his edges, but his straightline step sequence was nice and interesting.

He himself sounded dissapointed in his performance and surprised at his score. Yet, I am very happy that he made a wonderful comeback:clap::clap::clap: Congrats!
 
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annlfs

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
i'm really happy for johnny, he had a tough skate but he pushed true:rock: and made it to the finals!

congrats johnny!:clap:
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Bennett, thanks for the report and the insights. I hope to catch Ponsero and Weir later today on Eurosport - this is Yannick's first GP medal, isn't it? Not a bad GP showing for the French men. Yannick must do something about that SP costume, though.

As for Oda, it's the same as Patrick Chan for me - I can see he's good but it just doesn't work for me. I looked at Oda's SP on dailymotion (no LP video online yet), and it was a clean, solid skate. It didn't excite me, or move me, or have any innovation that I could see (Chan, to his credit, does have some cool footwork). Clean and solid is quite an achievement so far this season, but I don't see the basis for all the superlatives. I think it's the Morozov effect that's ruining Oda for me. Morozov programs always seem so alike, especially the step sequences, it's as if the skaters lose their uniqueness under his watch (which was why I was looking forward to seeing Dai's new stuff :frown:). But hey, all credit to Oda for getting it done on home ice and breaking the Curse of Kwong.

I do hope between them Kozuka and Oda do enough at Worlds for the Japanese men to have 3 spots in Vancouver. It wouldn't be fair to leave someone to watch it on TV. Same goes for the Americans and the French...
 

ManyCairns

Medalist
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Country
United-States
I don't think Weir score is to high. He's not patrick chan but his jumps were very smooth. Even the pop ones.

I guess judges were seeing what they saw the day before yesterday during the LP. I am so happy for his win, but I think that he could have scored much closer to Weir. I even thought that Weir might have won. But when I counted the number of elements, I understand that it was not the case.

Very interesting, thanks for the comments. Again, glad Johnny skated with great emotion, too, per Bennett's additional post!


As for Oda, it's the same as Patrick Chan for me - I can see he's good but it just doesn't work for me. ...

TA but maybe Chan and Oda will grow on me.
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Bennett-Thank you for your sensible and knowledgeable posts. I enjoy reading them. :clap:
 

Okami

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Re: Morozovian programs:
1. In my humble opinion, Daisuke's programs choreographed by Morozov were fabulous and quite original, especially the hip-hop Swan.
2. Nobunari's programs were choreographed by Lori Nichol.

At Nebelhorn Trophy Nobunari's footwork in SP was almost identical as Mao's steps from Fantasie Impromptu. It looks like Morozov changed them a bit - and I loved the new versions; especially the StSq from SP. Finally an exciting step sequence that covers the ice with good speed. The guys from the British Eurosport and the Russian Eurosport were swooning over it.

I have finally watched Nobunari's LP as well. I was pleasantly surprised. There was a lot of improvement since Karl Shaffer. Wonderful speed and some nice transitions. My big complaint about this program is the music cut - horrible choice of music for both of the step sequences. They were lovely in SP, in LP they fell flat because of poorly chosen background music. I hope something will be done about this come Nationals and Worlds. Actually, when I saw Nobunari's programs at Nebelhorn and KSM I thought that it was the LP that had more potential and the SP should be dumped. If "Masquerade" could be improved so much, I'm not ready to give up on "Warsaw Concerto" yet. :)

I'm waiting for the rest of the programs to download. I'm looking forward to seeing Johnny and Takahito.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Re: Morozovian programs:
1. In my humble opinion, Daisuke's programs choreographed by Morozov were fabulous and quite original, especially the hip-hop Swan.
2. Nobunari's programs were choreographed by Lori Nichol.
I'm at a loss, then. It didn't look like a Nichol program to me, and I didn't like it. I didn't hate it - it just left no impression. I did dislike the (universally beloved, it seems) hip hop Swan Lake - my favorite Takahashi program last year was his Bachelorette EX. Now that was pretty, and I believe much more suited to his style.

In general, I find the more recent Morozov-choreographed step sequences very disjointed, with lots of stops which interrupt the flow. The upper body movement is there but the sequences often look to me like they lack speed, and (if one looks at the skaters' feet rather than their arms) feature way too much two-footed skating. As I wrote, I'm by no means a fan of Chan but he is a good example of how to do intricate footwork with upper body movement and actually look good on the ice while doing so.

The guys from the British Eurosport and the Russian Eurosport were swooning over it.
I've found that I agree with the UK Eurosport guys about 75% of the time. There are times when I'm just left scratching my head at the disconnect between their perceptions and mine. The swooning isn't that unusual - they do tend to stress the positive in their commentary and almost always have something good to say, so I'm not surprised a good skater - which Oda is - left them ecstatic.
 
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Dodhiyel

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
I have read every post on this thread; thank you all, and especially Bennett :clap:

I am exceedingly proud of Johnny Weir. It puts me in mind of another skater whom I love greatly. It is so difficult to skate well with a severe head cold. The congestion can affect one's balance *a lot*, if it occurs in certain places in the head. It takes courage and determination, to skate at all well in that condition, and to skate to silver in that condition is remarkable. I love *the way* he skates, too.

Here's looking at you, Johnny. :love:

I am very happy that Nobunari Oda has had such a successful return to competition. I appreciate how nervous he must have been, and that he pushed on and did what he had to do. He will not be in the GPF, but I think they will send him to Four Continents. He will, I think, just get better and better, and he needs the high international level competition experience right now, to smooth those nerves for Worlds.

Congratulations, Nobu :clap:
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I agree with the final standings, but feel the scores should be tighter. Oda and Weir with a little less and Ponsero a little more. That's all.
There's nothing can be done about that. The judges know who are in contention for gold and they are prepared to score accordingly. Yannik was a compete surprise to them. They are used to him faulting though his programs, and now they had to contend with a no fault routine. What they did was score him in the 6.0 style. Since he preceded Weir and Oda, they left ample room expecting Weir and Oda to generate ovations (ovations didn't happen). Weir and Oda got pleasant applauses by their fans and countrymen.

The big question: Did Weir and Oda deserve the higher scores??? I mean I saw Johnny's cautious skating and Oda's major faults skating. (simply my view)

However, I also see that Yannik as being on the map with the big boys and a threat to their expectations. Maybe the changing of the guard is coming sooner than we think.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
I have read every post on this thread; thank you all, and especially Bennett :clap:

I am exceedingly proud of Johnny Weir. It puts me in mind of another skater whom I love greatly. It is so difficult to skate well with a severe head cold. The congestion can affect one's balance *a lot*, if it occurs in certain places in the head. It takes courage and determination, to skate at all well in that condition, and to skate to silver in that condition is remarkable. I love *the way* he skates, too.

Here's looking at you, Johnny. :love:

I am very happy that Nobunari Oda has had such a successful return to competition. I appreciate how nervous he must have been, and that he pushed on and did what he had to do. He will not be in the GPF, but I think they will send him to Four Continents. He will, I think, just get better and better, and he needs the high international level competition experience right now, to smooth those nerves for Worlds.

Congratulations, Nobu :clap:

I found your post very moving. I agree and admire the fact that both Johnny and Nobu did a great job under very difficult circumstances. I feel very proud of both of them! Both looked happy at the medal ceremony.
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
It was a nice competition in the LP, but not as nice as the SP :)

As much as I found Oda's SP top class, his LP was a bit boring and grabbed my attention only at the end. Maybe it was because Oda seemed very nervous. Nevertheless, I root for him, because I find his skating skills to be superb. He has a lot of potential and I am waiting for MORE :)

Johnny, wow. Even with mistakes, he is always so majestic. And his legs and arms have such a lovely lines when he lands the jumps (and of course not only then, but today it grabbed my attention).All of the sudden they seem even longer.. (his costumes also help here). I dont know how to put it, but his lines define grace and sublimity.

Ponsero - some great stuff, superb jumps. He is very musical! But in the middle of the program he lost me. Nevertheless, great performance. Very soon he will join the old guard!

Im glad the the competition was more less fairly judged, at least inflated scores did not change the final placement. The order was correct.

And Tomas in GPF! It will be so much more exciting with him!!!
 

ae9177

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
The big question: Did Weir and Oda deserve the higher scores??? I mean I saw Johnny's cautious skating and Oda's major faults skating. (simply my view)

However, I also see that Yannik as being on the map with the big boys and a threat to their expectations. Maybe the changing of the guard is coming sooner than we think.

ITA. Judges at NHK trophy are very generous, both Oda and Weir are overscored, they deserve the placement, but not the score. The gap between Yannick and them should be tighter. But congrats to the medalists.

I'm very happy that Nobu won 3 times in a roll this season, great start! Team Japan is in great shape even without Daisuke. Although nobody can surpass Dais yet, at least in my mind.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
wow, what a wonderful way to start the day! Fantastic thread with such great detail and such thoughtful/thought provoking comments - Thanks to all! I can't wait to watch at least the two 3 to see it for myself, but for now, congrats to the medalists and thanks once again!
 
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