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Thread: Does Mao have right strategy?

  1. #1
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    Does Mao have right strategy?

    I don't know whether it is wise idea for Mao to pursue two 3A and all five triples at the same time. If she really wants to keep two 3A program, she should ditch her salchow. Personally I think it will be really unwise move if she keeps trying two 3A program. In 2005 nationals, she landed twp 3A but lost to suguri. There should have been lesson learned from that experience.
    Adding salchow to her arsenal makes sense only when she tries one 3A because in this case she would need only one 3/3 combination instead two.

    Also what is Mao's plan on 3F/3T? It looks like Mao doesn't pay much attention to 3F/3T and it's very surprising because this combination can be most valuable asset for her , especially in SP.

    It is imposible to win after SP but it is possible to lose after sp and she will always face danger of losing competition after SP as long as she keeps trying 3F/3L.
    3F/3T may have less base value but she isn't likely to pop 2nd jump unlike 3F/3L.
    Mao reminds me of Phil Mickelson because his penchant fot additional length often led him to deep trouble. Mickelson has been criticized for his lack of course management and Mao should leran lesson from Mickelson. His fans revere him because he always go for heroic shot when he should play safe. That style earned him a lot of fans but bottom line is people who think he is idiot outnumber his fans.
    Last edited by frozenhell; 11-30-2008 at 01:17 AM.

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    I don't get your point.. what does the fact that she attempts two 3A has to do with the salchow? If she ditches her salchow, she probably has to replace it by a 2A because she uses all of her other triples with the other jump passes and combinations.
    I think she also considered 3F-3T but since she has been doing 3F-3L for a long time now she probably feels more comfortable with it. In addition, her 3F-3T always used to be either two-footed or underrotated or both.
    I think Mao's strategy is quite smart because she has a big variaty of options now. Also remember that a 3A is worth 8.2 points now. Even if she two-foots both attempts she will still receive lots of points - if they are fully rotated. Up to now, she landed 3 out 3 attempts.
    In 2005 , she lost to Suguri because her 2T was downgraded and she missed her 3L-2L-2L. It was also right before Olympics where Asada couldn't go so of course Arakawa and Suguri were placed higher....

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    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    I think Mao and her coach wanted her to land two 3 axles in a competiton to prove that she can do it and also (much like Evan's plan) to train that so if she needed to at the olympics she could land two triple axels. You can't expect to pull another triple axel out of your pocket for the first time at the olympics and expect to be a success. Mao was going to win this anyway...might as well take a risk.

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    Mao had learned from the Japanese nationals 2005. She lost there because she simply didn't land enough triples. She had no 3S, no 3T and she didn't max out her combo passes.

    As for Mao's jump layout this season... Let me quote Caliblue from Mao's fan forum:
    What I gathered from Mao's interviews:

    3A combo (she didn't say what the second jump would be in the final/maxed-out version)
    3A (this will be changed to a combo if the first 3A becomes a solo jump)
    3f+2l+2tanol (she didn't comment on this combo, so not sure what the final version will be)
    3s (she said that this would stay in the program this season)
    3f+3l (she confirmed that this was the intended combo)
    3z (she said that TAT and her decided to replace this with 3t for NHK in order to focus on the two 3A's)
    2A
    I think this is actually a safer jump layout than the one with two triple-triples. At this point, she has more success with 3As than with 3-3's. She has grown 3cm's lately and gained more power in her jumps, but in result, her timing on the jumps needs re-adjusting. In the SP, her 3-3 is the first element so she can fully concentrate on it. In the LP, it would be just one of many difficult jump passes.

    I would risk a guess that the Mao Team aims for a jump layout that would be impressive, and yet wouldn't require too much concentration and attention on every single jump pass.
    With a few months more, her 3Lz and 3S should become more stable. By then, her number of "dangerous jump passes" should be reduced to 3A combo and 3-3. Right now doing a solo 3A seems much easier to Mao than getting the timing of a 3-3 right.
    If she did two 3-3s, not only both of them would be risky in themselves, but they would make the elements that precede them more risky, because Mao would have to preserve her stamina to do the 3-3s.

    If you look at her elements in 07-08, she always had trouble with one of the high risk level jump passes. If her 3A was fine, then one of 3-3's would get downgraded, if the 3-3's were fine, then she's mess up 2A-2L-2L combo or spin, or miss the entrance to the step sequence.
    The bots are eager to blame Mao's supposedly weak technique for those troubles, but IMHO there's a good reason why Brian does not attempt quads in the second half of the program, and neither does YuNa put her 3-3 at the back of her routines. Those elements are, quite simply, risky enough when attempted on their own, let alone after already completing a part of the routine with other risky elements.

    In addition, her 3F-3T always used to be either two-footed or underrotated or both.
    It was clean at Worlds.

  5. #5
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    IF Mao is planning on doing only one 3/3 combo, this is an area, where someone could take advantage off. To bad Yu-na Kim has such a hard time with triple loops. (Maybe though working on it combination would give her less time to think about it) A program like this would actually be fairly competitive with An Asada two triple axel program with only one 3/3 In terms of base value. And 3 flip
    2 axel/triple toe/double loopis as impressive in it's own way.

    3 salchow/triple loop
    3 lutz/3toe

    3 lutz
    2 axel
    2 axel

    In the sense that it would put the person within 2 points of Mao's base value, which means that it could come down to GOE.
    Last edited by bekalc; 11-30-2008 at 02:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Okami View Post
    Mao had learned from the Japanese nationals 2005. She lost there because she simply didn't land enough triples.
    I thought she lost because Japanese federation wanted their national champion in olympic team. I might need to rewatch it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrlmy View Post
    I thought she lost because Japanese federation wanted their national champion in olympic team. I might need to rewatch it.
    In fact, Mao's "biggest mistake" at 2005 nationals is "popping of the axel in the SP." I don't know any mistakes on double axels other than this throughout her competitive career. Some people speculated that she has conceded the title for the elders going to the Olympics -- or someone (director Shirota?) asked her to do so. If it was an international she would have won anyway.
    Last edited by propronia; 11-30-2008 at 03:47 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by propronia View Post
    In fact, Mao's "biggest mistake" at 2005 nationals is "popping of the axel in the SP." I don't know any mistakes on double axels other than this throughout her competitive career. Some people speculated that she has conceded the title for the elders going to the Olympics -- or someone (director Shirota?) asked her to do so. If it was an international she would have won anyway.
    Actually I thought it was more the Japanese federation wanting Fumie to win so that Fumie could go to the Olympics... The whole placements was perfectly in order to ensure who the Japanese federation wanted to send to the Olympic got to go. It was rather sick.

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    Tarasova says they have three jump options for the SP. The 3F+3T should be one of them. I think GPF (aka SBS Trophy) is a good place to test that. At least she doesn't pop 3T combos. The tech panel can't arbitrarily downgrade in comparison with others. And of course, she doesn't lip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Actually I thought it was more the Japanese federation wanting Fumie to win so that Fumie could go to the Olympics... The whole placements was perfectly in order to ensure who the Japanese federation wanted to send to the Olympic got to go. It was rather sick.
    that may be true. Mao could not go anyway....win or not and the Japanese do not just use nationals to determine the world team...they make selections based on GP performance as well. Since Fumie was not spectacular in the GP, winning the National title would validate her selection to the olympics team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by propronia View Post
    Tarasova says they have three jump options for the SP. The 3F+3T should be one of them. I think GPF (aka SBS Trophy) is a good place to test that. At least she doesn't pop 3T combos. The tech panel can't arbitrarily downgrade in comparison with others. And of course, she doesn't lip.
    Stop it.

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    Don't you know SBS (Seoul Broadcasting System) is the title sponsor of this years' Final? Officially it's called SBS ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final 2008. The ISU must have made a good deal with them. Mao is exactly like Slutskaya going to SLC Olympics.

  13. #13
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    that may be true. Mao could not go anyway....win or not and the Japanese do not just use nationals to determine the world team...they make selections based on GP performance as well. Since Fumie was not spectacular in the GP, winning the National title would validate her selection to the olympics team.
    It wasn't just that in order to get the points to make the team Fumie had to win Nationals. And others to place a certain way. The whole thing was rigged. Mao "should" have won, and Nakano should have placed higher too.

    Don't you know SBS (Seoul Broadcasting System) is the title sponsor of this years' Final? Officially it's called SBS ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final 2008. The ISU must have made a good deal with them. Mao is exactly like Slutskaya going to SLC Olympics.
    So what Mao gets plenty of competitions in Japan. It's poor sportsmanship to complain because Korea gets one.
    Last edited by bekalc; 11-30-2008 at 05:27 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by propronia View Post
    Don't you know SBS (Seoul Broadcasting System) is the title sponsor of this years' Final? Officially it's called SBS ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final 2008. The ISU must have made a good deal with them. Mao is exactly like Slutskaya going to SLC Olympics.
    I don't get your point and you are getting annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    It wasn't just that in order to get the points to make the team Fumie had to win Nationals. And others to place a certain way. The whole thing was rigged. Mao "should" have won, and Nakano should have placed higher too.
    But who would you have put behind Nakano? Top 3 all skated better than her, and Yoshie Onda had a skate of her life.

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