Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: The Three Spots for the Competitions

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185

    The Three Spots for the Competitions

    With the results in Sweden, the US lost 3 spots for the Ladies Worlds in 2009.

    With the retirement of Plushenko, Russia lost 3 spots for the Men in 2007 and 2009

    When thinking about when they did secure a 3rd skater or team, did it bing much glory to the Home Team? I can't remember when a "3rd" skater at a Worlds or Olys have ever brought home a medal. Do you know anyone who did?

    Just how important is it to you for the Feds to gain 3 spots?

  2. #2
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,713
    Sarah Hughes.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    110
    I would like them to earn 3 spots if only to give Phil Hersh one less thing to write another doom-and-gloom, US-figure-skaters-stink, woe-be-to-us-all article about. He has been lamenting for nearly a year now that there is virtually no chance we will be able to send 3 ladies to Vancouver, and seeing Hersh be proven wrong would really make my day.

    Having said that, I think there is virtually no chance we will be able to send 3 ladies to Vancouver.

    Of course it would be a good thing to have 3 spots if we could, particularly if our top ladies skaters next season continue to be somewhat evenly matched. If we had one or two total standouts the way we did in the Michelle and Sasha days, maybe it wouldn't matter so much. But while I think Rachel Flatt and Ashley Wagner are our two strongest ladies at the moment, I also think either of them can be beaten by Caroline Zhang or Alissa Czisny having a good day. So if we had the option of sending 3 ladies to this year's Worlds, I believe it would certainly increase our chances of having someone finish, say, in the top six.

  4. #4
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,721
    1991 US Ladies worlds team.

  5. #5
    Addicted to handsome, artistic male skaters ;-)
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    The home of Jeff, Kurt & Shawn!
    Posts
    1,164
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Just how important is it to you for the Feds to gain 3 spots?
    I only follow the men's event, so I can't speak for the other disciplines, but in Canada, it has always been super-duper important for us to earn 3 spots for the guys since Orser's era. It's the male athletes who "sell" the sport to the non-fans in the country. Browning, Stojko and now Buttle are also household names, and even the most figure-skating-ignorant Canucks know who they are. Hockey is pratically a religion up here, but Canadians voted in a 2004 poll conducted by the CBC that "The Battle of the Brians" was the most exciting sporting event. (Ha, take that, hockey! )

    Winning 3 spots for the Canadian men at the 2009 Worlds is ESPECIALLY critical because the Olympics will be held in Vancouver. It just wouldn't be right for us to only have 2 men's singles skaters at a Winter Games hosted on our own turf. More guys = more attention from casual viewers, which then translates into more $ for SC. Figure skating's popularity reached its height when Browning and Stojko were at the top of the world, and it sharply declined after they left the eligible ranks. I know that SC was hoping Buttle could reverse the trend, so his retirement was a big blow to them. Chan is beloved by Canadian fans, but he will need to earn more laurels before he can capture the public's imagination.

    CBC recently produced a fluff piece on the current state of Canadian men's figure skating (they have not yet done one on the other 3 discipines---and I suspect they never will), which you can watch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HHAPWDm9hA As you can see, it's SC's #1 priority to earn 3 berths for the guys, and I suspect that would mean MUCH more to them then, let's say, Chan medals in L.A., but his teammates finish too low for that magic placement total of 13. I'm sure they would rather have him finish in 4th and the other skater in 9th place than the previous scenario I've mentioned.
    Last edited by siberia82; 12-09-2008 at 04:49 PM.

  6. #6
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    4,430
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I can't remember when a "3rd" skater at a Worlds or Olys have ever brought home a medal. Do you know anyone who did?
    Figure skating World sweeps:
    1925, 1927, 1928: Austrian men
    1939: German pairs
    1952, 1956: American men
    1955, 1956, 1968: British dancers
    1969, 1988: Soviet pairs
    1991: American ladies
    1992, 1996: Russian dancers (including CIS in this)

    Figure skating World/ Olympic sweeps:
    1908: Swedish men
    1956: American men

    Of course, as others have pointed out, it may be the "#2" who does poorly, and "#3" that steps up and medals. But I do agree with you that it's primarily about prestige, not medals.
    Last edited by Ptichka; 12-09-2008 at 05:47 PM.

  7. #7
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,721
    does Paul Wylie count as the third skater at the 92 olympics (or did we only have two there? I can't remember)

  8. #8
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    4,990
    I think the point is not that all three should place well, but that it takes some of the pressure off the top two.

    Mostly i think the benifit comes at Nationals. The "big name" can place anywhere on the podium and make the team instead of dealing with the pressure of placing first or second.

  9. #9
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Just speaking for THIS year's Worlds (2009) and thinking of top 10.,

    Mao, Yuna, Miki or Yukari, Joannie, Carolina. So can any two of the following add up to 13: Caroline, Mirai, Rachael, Ashley, Alyssa, Kimmie and Bebe. Not easy: 6&7 would be best. Remember Laura Lepisto is hanging around

    Since France gets 3 male skaters, I believe: Ponsero, Joubert,Preaubert will be top 10 with Brian and Yannik on the Podium. The US also gets 3 male skaters with Johnny a good possible podium finish, plus Evan and Jeremy in top 10. The Canadians get 3 also: Chan could be podium, and Reynolds top 10. Also Daisuke (if he is well) and Nobunari, and how does Kozuka fit in? Tomas could be podium and unfortunately Brezina will not be selected by Czech Fed. He is.
    injured anyway. This contest is the most puzzling competition ever, whomever their Feds send.

    I believe the US Pairs will be decided at their Nats but the usual suspects will dominate in the Worlds. McL/Bru and Inue/Bald with finish top 10 but will it add up to 13?

    I believe the Nats will decide who to send to Worlds: B&A, D&W, S&B, N/B, and maybe the Hubbells. However they finish I am fairly sure two of the teams will add up to 13 at Worlds? However, the Euro teams are very strong this season. 6th and 7th finishes may be necessary to get 3 places. Much depends on B&A to get a podium spot.

    The prestige is important!

  10. #10
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,752
    France only got two entries for the men.

  11. #11
    Addicted to handsome, artistic male skaters ;-)
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    The home of Jeff, Kurt & Shawn!
    Posts
    1,164
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Since France gets 3 male skaters, I believe: Ponsero, Joubert,Preaubert will be top 10 with Brian and Yannik on the Podium.
    France has earned only 2 Worlds spots for the men this season (Joubert's 2nd + Ponsero's 18th = 20, which is > 13). It's a great shame because all 3 deserve to be in L.A.

    EDIT: Oops, Medusa beat me to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Tomas could be podium and unfortunately Brezina will not be selected by Czech Fed. He is.
    injured anyway. This contest is the most puzzling competition ever.
    Why is this puzzling? The Czech Republic can only send 1 man to the 2009 Worlds (Verner's 15th + Kaska's 27th = 42, which is > 28). Verner made the GPF, so I'm sure they won't hesitate to give him a plane ticket to L.A.
    Last edited by siberia82; 12-11-2008 at 03:43 PM.

  12. #12
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    does Paul Wylie count as the third skater at the 92 olympics (or did we only have two there? I can't remember)
    We had three men - Christopher Bowman, Paul Wylie, and Todd Eldredge. Todd was named to the team instead of US Bronze Medalist Mark Mitchell. However, Mark was named to the World Team instead of Paul. Todd was named to the team because he was the reigning World Bronze Medalist but couldn't compete at Nationals because of a back injury. So, I think Paul was really viewed as the number three man but we all know what happened....

    Then at Worlds Mark Mitchell had the best LP of the US men but finished just behind Bowman because of his 8th place SP. However, he did skate in the exhibition and Bowman couldn't because he banged his knee on the boards towards the end of his LP.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    452
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    I think the point is not that all three should place well, but that it takes some of the pressure off the top two. Mostly i think the benifit comes at Nationals. The "big name" can place anywhere on the podium and make the team instead of dealing with the pressure of placing first or second.
    This. Especially with the, shall we say, "capricious" nature of CoP scores. Also factor in the capricious nature of the current US ladies. (Mirai, what happened?) We don't have 1 big star anymore, we don't have 1 or 2 people we can almost always depend on to at least score well. This is why the USFSA came out with a statement/revision about choices for worlds/olys, saying that it will be their discretion who to send, implying that even winning Nats isn't a guarantee of being sent. That's pretty bad in a lot of ways, and actually devalues Nationals, but what can you do... (well other than fixing CoP, which they won't do...)
    Last edited by Particle Man; 12-09-2008 at 09:36 PM.

  14. #14
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    France only got two entries for the men.
    siberia82
    France has earned only 2 Worlds spots for the men this season (Joubert's 2nd + Ponsero's 18th = 20, which is > 13). It's a great shame because all 3 deserved to be in L.A.
    Thank you ladies or gentlemen. Mea Culpa. I was just guessing.

  15. #15
    it's olympic season :D bethissoawesome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NYC; Tokyo
    Posts
    495
    I think it's more about the pride a country feels about the depth of their skating team.

    Considering how deep the ladies team is in Japan right now and the potential for the US ladies (and perhaps even the men as well), I would love to see a Worlds where a country could send as many skaters that they have that could qualify. I'd love to see a Worlds some day with Mao, Yukari, Miki, Fumie, Akiko, Mirai, Caroline, Rachael, Ashley, etc. (the list goes on) all competing against one another and not just limited to three skaters per country. I'll just have to keep dreaming

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •