commentary- missed or not?

Grgranny said:

I really miss Dick and the others. Did not like some of them. Especially Scott, Sandra and some others. Like Susie and Peggy when she finally got so she would say something, not as a compliment.

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I agree totally with you Grgranny. I miss Dick & Peggy, no matter what. If Dick & Peggy didn't commentate, then Paul Wiley did a great job.

Dee

I miss commentary from more of a 'golden' age... Dick (before he got a little um... windy and mis-called jumps), and either Jim McKay or even Curt Gowdy (covering something like Europeans on ABC Wide world of Sports).

The magician behind it all was the Production work of Doug Wilson. His ability to knit together images (remember the final close up on Brian Boitano's face at the end of his Calgary Olympics Free Program? All Doug Wilson). Couple that with commentary that didn't feel like it needed to 'compete' with each other ... i.e., more than skater... was a pleasure.

At the end of the day, being informed, knowing the 'story' and how to tell it... all mattered. While I think Nancy K. tried her best, there is simply NO WAY that she can know all that we fans expect her to know to cover all of the events, especially dance.

lcd said:

At the end of the day, being informed, knowing the 'story' and how to tell it... all mattered. While I think Nancy K. tried her best, there is simply NO WAY that she can know all that we fans expect her to know to cover all of the events, especially dance.

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Does this mean, she will never learn in your estimation? I've mever heard anyone do ALL the disciplines.
There is no reason for her not to say: "not close enough together", "The Twizzles were not together". "The lift was held too long or was illegal " "The timing was off" or the ever popular "He fell". Don't you think all that is obvious? Why a commentator anyway?

Now if a commentator would say (in singles) 'she did a wrog edge takeoff' instead of 'it looked to me like it was a wrong edge takeoff', I would applaud the commentator for being candid regardless of what the Caller says.

gkelly said:

I also think that while a skater is taking the ice (professional information about the skater such as the coach/choreographer and music information often displayed in graphics, and brief human interest tidbits, or alerts about unusual moves such as planned quads to look out for in the program) and after the performance before the scores are announced (analysis of the program or elements just completed) are great times for educational commentary.

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Does the Russian commentator do this, perhaps? I do not understand Russian at all. But he doesn't speak during the performance. I like it.

I really miss the commentary and the fluff. I miss the exciting music and special effects they had leading up to the comps and the intrigue commentators would contribute to who were the ones to watch and who were the rivals - even though I already know. I miss TV coverage terrlibly.

casken said:

I can't even begin to count how many times Dick has misidentfied an element, said things that went completely against the rules, or droned on and on over a skaters program becuase he didn't like the music or some body position. I'll still take him over Scott Hamilton any day though.
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Justpat, I agree with pretty much everything you said. I watch skating on cbc, and luckily, do not need an icenetwork subscription, but if I had to watch it on icenetwork, I would definitely miss commentary. I am not a skater myself, so I have learned a LOT from commentators. Even though I have been watching skating faithfully for at least 7 years, and watching it off and on since I was a kid, I am still have much to learn about it. If I were a new fan, and had no commentary, I would be lost, and probably LESS interested in skating even! I agree with you about Dick Button. He was my favorite. Everything he said made sense to me, and amazingly, I always agreed with him! I wish NBC would hire him, and the rest of the ABC commentators. I don't really have anything against NBC's commentators, but I was used to, and attached to ABC's

Casken: I was not aware that Dick made so many mistakes identifying elements! I naively (apparently) always take the commentators word for it. I am not a skater, and therefore, rely on them to tell me what is what, especially when it comes to jumps. Do the other commentators get it right more often than Dick? I also think he was having a hard time keeping up with all the new rules in the new scoring system, but I never held that against him. I understand the confusion. Even though I have some new, negative info on him, I still love him

Kypma said:

Tracy Wilson? She used to dance with Rob McCall, and he died several years ago... does she still do commentary? I've mainly been watching cbcsports.ca so I wouldn't know, I only hear PJ Kwong, when there is commentary...

-Kypma

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Yes, Tracy is very busy doing commentaries both in Canada and the US. I really enjoy her commentation for ice dance because she knows her stuff. I used to like Debbie Wilkes as well - another Canadian pair champion from a few years ago, but she is in the back ground now.

justpat said:

I think my ideal commentator would be a former judge or technical specialist that has a personality. Someone who could accurately call elements as they happen without thinking "What jump was that? Double or triple?" Someone who could explain underrotation or wrong edge takeoff to the average Joe or Josephine. Someone who could call a spin as it's happening-- back or forward, position names, changes of edge, etc. But even more importantly, that person needs to have an enthusiastic (not necessarily always positive) attitude. The ability to get fans excited about what they are seeing.

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I feel that Jeff Buttle may become a fantastic comentator. He's started it already.

He is a skater and also trained as a judge. Unlike many of the current commentators, he experienced CoP himself. That would be a great advantage. Moreover, he was famous for being good at CoP. He was also precise in his elements and knows about PCS-aspects of skating very much. So he could tell the qualities of elements and performances.

He also seems a very smart, intelligent person. He delivers his well-thoughtout opinions in a calm, objective manners.

Personality-wise, he comes across as a very pleasant, likable personality. He would not make comments that are overly critical or mean. He also has a nice voice. He is not too chatty, either. He obviously loves the sport, too.


I was thinking of Japanese commentators as examples and thought that Midori may have one of the best personalities. She becomes emotional and excites the audience as well. But she is not very reliable for the technical assessments. She too often makes bizarre mistakes.
On the contrary, Shizuka is very reliable for the technical aspects. But she wouldn't make the audience "feel" it. Further, her explanations often go on even when the skater goes to the next moves.
Among current skaters, I would love to see Daisuke become a commentator in future. I would not think Mao would be very good at commentating. But Yuna may be pretty good. Tomas and Johnny may be interesting ones to have, too.

Most of the commentators are former has-been-figure skaters. One should ask the question of how sincere they are in bringing to the layman a very needed view of the CoP. The layman has eyes, and all he has to hear is that lift is worth many points, or that particular jump has more value than another one. After the competitor has completed his/her routine, he can give some fluff while the skater is approaching the K&C

A college course in Communicatons should be mandatory for any would-be commentator. Knowledge of subject, Personality, Voice, Diction, etc would be convered. Some would-be commentators lack these qualities.

I can not understand why a popular skater would automatically make an excellent commentator? anymore than I can see a popular skater become an actor automatically.

Joesitz said:

What bothers me about commentary, is that some former skaters (now commentators) will say 'it looked like he underrotated that. We'll have to wait to see what the Caller says'.

While it is true that the commentator has no power on the scores, and that he has been probably directed to use care in what he says, I would like the former skater to speak out on his/her power of conviction. He/she doesn't need a caller seminar to spot an underrotation. It won't change the outcome but at least it will show doubt.

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I think there are 2 reasons for this:

1. The commentator may not have had the best viewing angle. If the jump occurred across the ice, it wouldn't be appropriate to say that it was definitely under-rotated. This is also the reason why the judges know have video playback, as well.

2. I think they are err'ing on the side of being reserved after Hamilton and Bezic over-enthused during the SLC Olympics during the pairs finals. They are trying to remain neutral and not influence the audience.

Just wanted to mention that I like Paul Wiley as commentator. He has a nice voice and speaks well with intelligence. I remember when he did some COP lessons during he early lessons.

I agree - I need commentary about the performances. How many times have I heard Dick Button moaning about bad leg positions on laybacks? Lots, but he was correct and the skaters listened and we had prettier skating to watch. He's not as 'on his toes' as he used to be, but from a historical standpoint, he has a lot to offer.

I like commentary. Without it, skating competitions feel more like performances or a shows, rather than competitive scored events.
Further, I certainly agree with many of you who believe it is hard to learn about COP, or how an element is scored, or even what an element is without some level of commentary. Certainly a sport can not grow if its casual fans are expected to dissect skaters' programs and analyze protocols as we do here so that the fan can understand a score.

As for the composition of the commenting team, I like a professional sportcaster-type person (can be former skater with proper training) to manage the booth, with past skaters providing color commentary. If fact, I like that recipe for most sporting events I watch.
JW

^^^
Good Post!!! A trained skater in journalism if one must have a skater.

gkelly said:

I also think that while a skater is taking the ice (professional information about the skater such as the coach/choreographer and music information often displayed in graphics, and brief human interest tidbits, or alerts about unusual moves such as planned quads to look out for in the program) and after the performance before the scores are announced (analysis of the program or elements just completed) are great times for educational commentary.

During the actual performance, while the music is playing, I'd prefer no commentary at all. Or else, if a suitably knowledgeable, analytical, and articulate commentator is available who can supply such commentary in real time without stumbling over his/her words, a few very specific analytical comments about of the elements and skating content that set this skater apart from the others.

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Couldn't have said it any better so I will not try.:agree:

I didn't even notice the lack of commentary on Icenetwork until halfway trhough Skate Canada. I FLOVE having no commentary. I thought Nancy Kerrigan did a pretty good job with the commentary last season, and she kept her voice low so it wasn't that disruptive, but now that I've gotten to see several comps without any talking I'm totally spoiled. I was really disappointed to have commentary over the GPF and hope that was just a one time thing.