U.S. ladies -- agree or disagree?

The common wisdom about U.S. ladies seems to go something like this. Agree or disagree?

1. Rachael Flatt. Consistent, dependable. Where is the “it” factor?

2. Ashley Wagner. Athletic and robust. More challenged in grace and lyricism?

3. Caroline Zhang. Exquisite junior champion. Will her flawed technique prevent her from achieving the next level?

4. Mirai Nagasu. Cutie-pie charmer. A one-shot wonder?

5. Kimmie Meissner. Nicest girl in town. As a skater, is she done?

6. Emily Huighes. Fun while it lasted, she has moved on.

7. Alissa Czisny. Beautiful skater :agree: , lovely person , can’t jump.

8. Bebe Liang. She went as far as her talent could take her. Go Bebe!

9. Sasha Cohen. Comeback?

10. Michelle Kwan. Comeback?

11. The next generation. Hope springs eternal, but no one stands out yet.

I think that you've gotten the general consensus on this board at least.

I still say Ashley is a better shot than Rachel.

Rachaels it factor is simply her joy of skating. You can't teach that. She looks like she loves being out there. Yea, she needs to improve her posture, and will those darn braces ever come off.

Ashley is a work in progress. She Tried this year to be the more refined skater. I think in trying something new she has lost a litlle of the competitive fire she had last year. But I think she will do well at Nationals. I hope she makes top 2.

Alissa can jump. She jumped her butt off to win Skate Canada a few years ago. I think it's the expectations of others that she can't deal with. The thought of everyone looking to her to be the next best skater is very nerve wacking for her. Her nerves get the better of her in some way in every competition. I just want to shake her. She needs to find something to get over those nerves. I was thinking maybe she should try that thing Paul Wylie use to do, remember when he would take his pulse before he skated.

Zhang, she didn't have the season she had last year, but she did ok. I think she was feeling a lot of pressure. Her technique is strange, but what top skater has great technique. I dont think her jumps look as bad as some skaters. I think with more experience she will be at the top both nationally and internationally.

Bebe, I can't see her being in contention to make the Olympic team. It would be nice if she could pull it together, but she never does.

Kimmie, I guess it depends on how bad Kimmie wants it and how much time she is willing to put into correcting her problems. Look at Fumie. It has been about 2 years that I have seen her not being able to hit those jumps. But she was determined. So, I think if Kimmie wants it she can do it!

Mirai, nothing but problems this year. I know she could not help being injured. I don't expect her to be in the top 2 at nationals. I would be very surprised. She looked very insecure with those jumps at NHK. She may have to call it a season, and look to next year.

That's my 2 cents!

Tonichelle said:

I think that you've gotten the general consensus on this board at least.

I still say Ashley is a better shot than Rachel.

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I don't feel like Ashley has a better shot than Rachael At all. Yes, Ashley is more enjoyable, BUT Ashley has underrotation problems were Rachael's jumps have been rock solid consistent.

Quite frankly I think Flatt has an outside shot at a Worlds bronze medal this year given Kostner/Rochette's inconsistency, and Miki's underotation issues, and what Suguri cannot do.

The common wisdom about U.S. ladies seems to go something like this. Agree or disagree?

1. Rachael Flatt. Consistent, dependable. Where is the “it” factor?

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Consistent? Yes. Dependable? Too early to tell. Remember this is only her first senior season. Plus, I'm concerned about her future as she looks like the type who would fill out quite a bit later on.

2. Ashley Wagner. Athletic and robust. More challenged in grace and lyricism?

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Pretty much.

3. Caroline Zhang. Exquisite junior champion. Will her flawed technique prevent her from achieving the next level?

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After watching what went down at TEB, Yes.

4. Mirai Nagasu. Cutie-pie charmer. A one-shot wonder?

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Give her a chance will ya?

5. Kimmie Meissner. Nicest girl in town. As a skater, is she done?

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I don't know about the first part, but ask me the second part again in a month

6. Emily Huighes[sic]. Fun while it lasted, she has moved on.

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According to her website, she will be at Nationals. Skating-wise though, her best days are far behind her.

7. Alissa Czisny. Beautiful skater :agree: , lovely person , can’t jump.

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More or less

8. Bebe Liang. She went as far as her talent could take her.

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Agreed

9. Sasha Cohen. Comeback?

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and may I add a couple more

10. Michelle Kwan. Comeback?

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You wish.

11. The next generation. Hope springs eternal, but no one stands out yet.

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No doubt.

I read Mathman's post, and for the most part, agreed with what he had to say. Then I read flying camel's post, and agreed with him/her even more. I think it is too early to completely size up Rachael, Mirai, Ashly, and Caroline though. I think they all have great potential. Potential. I don't see them developing into good enough skaters in time to make podium at worlds though. And if I had to make my bet now, I wouldn't bet they would make the podium at the olympics either. The timing with the olympics, and the US ladies field is pretty bad... we need an extra season or two. lol. We have some great skaters, but I don't know if any of out current ladies will ever be on the level on other current contenders of the world. Then again, like I said, it's kind of early to tell. And I hope I'm wrong.

As for Kimmie, and Emily, I was never that crazy about them. You never know what can happen, but I think they have hit their peak. Alissa: No one skates with more beauty and grace than Alissa. I love her, but chances are, she's never going to put all the pieces together, and skate whole programs clean, consistently Bebe is good, but I think she would have been more of a contender in previous generations of skaters.

Sasha and Michelle? I would LOVE for them to come back, but I'm not counting on it. I've heard talk of them both saying they might come back for the 2010 olympics (I've heard more of Sasha coming back than Michelle). Skaters have been increasing the difficulty of their programs even more the last few years than ever before. Michelle and Sasha would have to be at their very best if they came back. Skaters kind of go down hill after they go stop competing... I believe they could catch back up though. And Sasha would have to have fixed her consistency problem. Maybe the time off has done her some good. I think if either of them were to come back though, they should have done it THIS season, not next. For one, having an extra season of competing would probably do them some good. Also, I'm a big fan, and I don't want to see them come back as late as the can get away with, conquer (or not), then retire again.

1. Rachael Flatt. Consistent, dependable. Where is the “it” factor?

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Agreed.

2. Ashley Wagner. Athletic and robust. More challenged in grace and lyricism?

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Remember her SP

3. Caroline Zhang. Exquisite junior champion. Will her flawed technique prevent her from achieving the next level?

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Agreed.

4. Mirai Nagasu. Cutie-pie charmer. A one-shot wonder?

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She will achieve the next level after this difficult time is over.

5. Kimmie Meissner. Nicest girl in town. As a skater, is she done?

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Agreed except that I do not know her personality.

6. Emily Huighes. Fun while it lasted, she has moved on
7. Alissa Czisny. Beautiful skater :agree: , lovely person , can’t jump.

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Agreed.

8. Bebe Liang. She went as far as her talent could take her. Go Bebe!

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Don't know much about her.

9. Sasha Cohen. Comeback?

10. Michelle Kwan. Comeback?

11. The next generation. Hope springs eternal, but no one stands out yet.

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Agreed.

Are you sure we can't count on Bebe? She just might have the skate of her life at nationals and wins.. then fall apart as usual and winds up around 18th at worlds..

ks777 said:

Are you sure we can't count on Bebe? She just might have the skate of her life at nationals and wins.. then fall apart as usual and winds up around 18th at worlds..

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Bebe finished 10th at worlds last year.

flying camel said:

Rachaels it factor is simply her joy of skating. You can't teach that. She looks like she loves being out there. Yea, she needs to improve her posture, and will those darn braces ever come off.



That's my 2 cents!

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Flying Camel...go to the Flickr Photo site from the Disson Rapid City, S.D. show, and if you look at the photo of Rachael from her first number in the show...pink dress/close up
http://flickr.com/photos/alexlc13/3135962527/sizes/l/in/set-72157611605316553/

guess what...no braces!!!

1. Rachael - can she find more appropriate music to push her to the next level and get herself costumed and coiffed in more flattering ways? She's a beautiful skater but, right, doesn't make me go "wow."

2. Ashley - rewatch her SP. She's flowered. She just needs a little more polish and consistency. She's now the top US lady IMO.

3. Caroline - still hoping but I wasn't happy with what I saw this season so far.

4. Mirai will get it together after she stops growing.

5. Kimmie - it's hard to watch her struggle like this. Wagner, Czisny and Zhang are likelier to make the podium at Nats than she is. If that happens, maybe she should consider retiring.

6. Emily - can't do two things at once. (But I didn't even enjoy her skating at its best.)

7. Alissa - hmm. I guess she could have her one perfect day sometime. Otherwise I'm used to her being a top-ten but not top-three skater.

8. Bebe - ohhh, I keep waiting for that perfect FP of hers. Stop playing the piano for a year or two, Bebe!

9. Sasha - it looks like there's an opening at least in the US ladies and it looks like she's itching to take it. Can't wait to see how it works out. (Aside: it's been very interesting to behold the patience of fans the past season or two with struggling skaters like Meissner and Czisny, vs. the scorn that was routinely dumped on Sasha, whose record... apart from that one Worlds of Kimmie's... was incomparably better. Major double standard among skating fans, IMO.)

10. Michelle - age 28, after the way she broke down in Torino? I don't think so. OTOH, she probably watched Fumie this week ... maybe Morozov will get another American skater.

I agree that Rachel and Ashley are our best bet for Worlds. Rachel is a bit more consistant but Ashley looks more mature. I must take my hat off to Miss Hill. She has taken a young pony-tailed cutie and evolved her into a gorgeous grown up woman. The change is remarkable! Kudos, ladies!

Spun Silver said:

10. Michelle - age 28, after the way she broke down in Torino? I don't think so. OTOH, she probably watched Fumie this week ... maybe Morozov will get another American skater.

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All Michelle needs is a 3 flip/fluz and 3toe. That's what Fumie did. She pretty much did the same jump 4 times and 3toe, plus 3 2axel.

One thing about Ashley is, she goes into the take-offs for her jumps so fast it's hard for me to tell what jump she just did lol.

More or less I agree with Mathman

Alissa Czisny's skating is beautiful. Of all these new girls, she is the only one which I really like. I hope she can land those jumps at Nationals and win the competition. Zhang is someone who interests me though.

Now I would like to express my very personal opinion.
I always admired American ladies for their generally dynamic skating, artistry, well choreographed and interesting programs, skating skills and a special look for details. But especially beeing so different one from the other, so having their own specific styles.
Michelle Kwan is my absolute favourite, but I used to like a lot also Sasha Cohen, Angela Nikodinov, Kristi Yamaguchi, Jill Trenary, Caryn Cadavy, Tonya Harding and Debi Thomas.

The flawed technique, less polished way of skating, way boring programs that look the same, lack of specific style are problems affecting not just the USA ladies, but generally the ladies of the whole World. I really hope the situation will change quickly. There are obviously some exceptions: Joannie Rochette (love her skating ) for example.
Back to the USA, Zhang has yet a lot of technical problems. But I think she has potential. If she can overcome those technical deficiencies and develop a style on her own, I really think she can become someone.

12. Sociopathic behaviour aside, Tonya Harding.

the first woman ever to do a triple axel in the short program,
the first woman to do two triple axels in a single competition, and
the first ever to do a triple axel combination (with double toe loop).

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(c) Wiki

Of the ladies listed, Sasha Cohen showed some signs of a personality, comeback or no comeback. IMHO.

Nigel said:

Flying Camel...go to the Flickr Photo site from the Disson Rapid City, S.D. show, and if you look at the photo of Rachael from her first number in the show...pink dress/close up
http://flickr.com/photos/alexlc13/3135962527/sizes/l/in/set-72157611605316553/

guess what...no braces!!!

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I don't believe it. Thanks for posting!

Congratulations to Rachel for her new beautiful smile. Her costumes are so rich looking. They are constructed and made from top line materials. I can tell even from a photo. I wonder though, if Rachel might try a sleeve? All of her costumes are sleeveless and that tends to thicken the upper body. She has a petite frame, but while the design of the costume is rich, the shape of the costume is not suited for Rachel. A sleeve and more flattering skirt line could help her look taller. Nonetheless, she always looks polished.

Only Sasha knows if she will come back. Maybe SHE doesn't even know, in fact. But she has put way too much "new training" info out there to say she is just stringing everyone along. No one would lie that much. I firmly believe she intends to try a comeback. Whether she can, I don't know, but I do know this. If she had been competing these past 2 seasons with all our new "phenoms", she would have had little trouble getting her usual consistent silver (at least), and easily outclassing them all in artistry, as well as making all the events much more watchable and interesting. You're right that Alissa can't land jumps, but the quality of her skating still brings a whole lot to the competitions. Same with Sasha, though she was far more consistent. And all of our new girls have faltered repeatedly.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new girls and I hope at least ONE of them can live up to their potential, so we will have an actual contender for 2010. But as of now, I am sad to say, it still has not happened. How things stand currently, out of the tons of talented girls we have, the US has NO realistic contender for 2010 ladies gold. In fact, unless something changes drastically, it's doubtful we will even medal. That's a very sad thing for US skating.

And as I continually remind the Sasha haters -- Sasha is more than 1 full Olympic cycle younger than Michelle. If you want to put 2 ROFL'ing smileys in front of Sasha's potential comeback, that's your business. But then Michelle's should have 3 or 4, just by basic logic.

I think this years Nationals & Worlds is going to prove a lot. Maybe since Worlds is in the US somebody will come to skate and get the crowd behind them and push them onto the podium. Hey, you never know!