Ladies Draw

flying camel · Jan 20, 2009

Boy, Rachael has a long wait! That may be a good draw for Alissa. Maybe she won't have time to let the nerves kick in.

2009 U.S. FIGURE SKATING CHAMPIONSHIPS
01/18/2009 - 01/25/2009
Championship Ladies
Short Program
Starting Order Start
# Name
Warmup Group
1 Tatyana Khazova, Broadmoor SC
2 Blake Rosenthal, SC of Wilmington
3 Katrina Hacker, SC of Boston
4 Karen Zhou, All Year FSC
5 Alissa Czisny, Detroit SC

Warmup Group
6 Caroline Zhang, All Year FSC
7 Melissa Telecky, Detroit SC
8 Molly Oberstar, St. Paul FSC
9 Kristine Musademba, Washington FSC
10 Tenile Victorsen, All Year FSC
11 Angela Maxwell, Dallas FSC

Warmup Group
12 Alexe Gilles, Broadmoor SC
13 Mirai Nagasu, Pasadena FSC
14 Chrissy Hughes, Highland SC
15 Joelle Forte, SC of New York
16 Becky Bereswill, Houston FSC
17 Laney Diggs, All Year FSC

Warmup Group
18 Brittney Rizo, SC of Boston
19 Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington
20 Beatrisa Liang, All Year FSC
21 Taylor Firth, Jamestown SC
22 Brittney Westdorp, Greater Grand Rapids FSC
23 Rachael Flatt, Broadmoor SC

Mathman · Jan 20, 2009

flying camel said:
That may be a good draw for Alissa. Maybe she won't have time to let the nerves kick in.

I wonder if it is better to be in group where you are exppected to dominate, like Alissa (although Katrina Hacker could be right there if Alissa falters). Or would you rather be like Bebe, in a tough group including favorites Ashley and Rachael, hoping to score a knockout?

Tinymavy15 · Jan 21, 2009

Both Alissa and Caroline are awfully early in the program for their scores to hold up through the night. Racehel has the advantage of skating last.

Bruin714 · Jan 21, 2009

n case the judges hold the PCS scores for the stronger group, I think it's better to be in the competitive group.

Although Alissa has become my favorite and I want her to perform well, I would certainly hesitate sending her to Worlds this year no matter how well she skates since so much is at stake --- number of Ladies we can send to the Olympics next year.

feraina · Jan 21, 2009

Oh, man, Caroline can never catch a break with the draw, can she? She always gets to go so freaking early in the SP. Last year, the two early skaters (who were expected to do relatively well), Caroline and Kimmie, both did badly in the SP. The poor girl! I guess it's good that she gets to skate first in her group, at least. It usually sucks to go last in a group, but I guess that matters more in the LP, because there's such a long delay between the warm-up and the actual skate.

Ergh! I was really hoping that Caroline would be able to go relatively late for once.

kate · Jan 21, 2009

Tinymavy15 said:
Both Alissa and Caroline are awfully early in the program for their scores to hold up through the night. Racehel has the advantage of skating last.

COP really helps eliminate some of this. Novice Ladies SP was won by the very first skater, and that was a close event.

PolymerBob · Jan 21, 2009

Maybe there is an advantage to skating right after the warm up. You don't have time to cool down. Let's hope we don't have a repeat of last year when the judges took points away from Caroline by mistake. I don't remember if they ignored an element, or downgraded an element they shouldn't have.

kate · Jan 21, 2009

PolymerBob said:
Maybe there is an advantage to skating right after the warm up.

Usually skating first after the warmup means you miss a minute of it though -- you don't want to go straight from the warmup to your program, it's like doing a double run-through. It's better than going last considering how long COP scores take, though...

Andalusia · Jan 21, 2009

So how exactly is the draw determined? Quite a coincidence the one favoured to win gets the plum position of skating last. And I know there are drawbacks to skating last, too, but it's generally considered that the judges tend to look kinder upon the skater who skates last.

kate · Jan 21, 2009

Andalusia said:
So how exactly is the draw determined? Quite a coincidence the one favoured to win gets the plum position of skating last. And I know there are drawbacks to skating last, too, but it's generally considered that the judges tend to look kinder upon the skater who skates last.

Skaters literally draw numbers out of a hat, essentially. Sometimes it's themed (like they would draw little guitars for Cleveland because of the Rock and Roll hall of fame, etc.) but it's just randomly drawing numbers. For the FS, they're put into groups by placement in the short (aka placements 1-6 are in the last group and so on) and but order within that group is a random draw. It gets even more complicated because in dance they "combine" groups (for the OD) so that placements 1-10 (or whatever 2 groups would be) from the CD draw together, so the 1st place team often skates in the penultimate group instead.

Andalusia · Jan 21, 2009

Thanks for the explanation, kate.

I know about how the skate order is determined for the FS, and it makes sense to me, but if the draw really is that random for the SP, then it is both an extraordinary coincidence and fortunate for Rachael that she's closing the show. After all, she's the predicted winner in most people's minds, and considering that she's been a steady and consistent competitor thus far, her final position in the draw really does bode well for her.

Tesla · Jan 21, 2009

Unless the nerves of waiting get to her. That's a long time to wait.

PolymerBob · Jan 21, 2009

If I was setting up the starting order, I would probably do something like this. Notice that all groups have someone with name recognition. People will sit through the whole event. At the Golden West competition back in August, 1/3 of the audience got up and left after Caroline skated.

mskater93 · Jan 21, 2009

kate said:
Usually skating first after the warmup means you miss a minute of it though -- you don't want to go straight from the warmup to your program, it's like doing a double run-through. It's better than going last considering how long COP scores take, though...

Exactly on draw spot. With IJS, my favorite skating position in a group is 2nd - you get your full warm up, one skater's full program, and the review time to get back on the ice and work your knees - with third in the group as my second favorite spot because you don't stiffen back up. :rock:

Particle Man · Jan 21, 2009

I'd like to point out that the warmups are being held in Hoover Arena, 20 miles away from the competition arena, with the listed warmup times being:

4:00 PM (group 1)
4:20 PM (group 2)
5:00 PM (group 3)
5:20 PM (group 4)
6:00 PM (group 5)

Though I do not understand how they still list 5 warmup groups, while they break the ladies into A B C and D groups, and then 4 starting order groups. Maybe it's because Kimmie and Emily withdrew and they dropped a grouping?

Anyway, the point is, I think most of the skaters for this Nationals are going to have a long time between warmup and competition. I really do not understand why they are doing this, holding warmups hours before the competition, in another arena. I like seeing the warmups, we're used to seeing them on TV before the skates. Is this decision based on money and/or catering to TV viewing? Or has this happened with other nationals?

Actually, maybe I am confusing pre-pre-skate warmup with pre-skate warmups... nevermind.

PolymerBob · Jan 21, 2009

I can't believe they would not have warm ups right at the competition. I have never heard of that before.

Kypma · Jan 21, 2009

PolymerBob said:
I can't believe they would not have warm ups right at the competition. I have never heard of that before.

There are two types of warmups -- usually, a short session early in the competition day in order for skaters to finalize some practice details with their music, and then there is the other warmup, which is right before each group of skaters during the actual competition for their discpline.

Hope that helps,

-Kypma

lcd · Jan 21, 2009

Are they doing the same nightmare as last year, where the free skate was split into two groups? While it makes for a long night, I sure hope not. Just getting to Nationals as a senior lady is such a great achievement of many many many year year year $$$$.... and the least one can have, is an excited bunch of warm bodies cheering you on for the final of senior ladies!

LKR · Jan 21, 2009

lcd said:
Are they doing the same nightmare as last year, where the free skate was split into two groups? While it makes for a long night, I sure hope not. Just getting to Nationals as a senior lady is such a great achievement of many many many year year year $$$$.... and the least one can have, is an excited bunch of warm bodies cheering you on for the final of senior ladies!

No, they're not, but they are doing that with pairs and dance. The early groups for pairs and dance will go in the morning, the later ones will be televised in the afternoon, and the ladies FS will be held Saturday evening for all the women competing. Just letting y'all know that I recently emailed Icenetwork about them possibly doing live coverage for the early groups for the ladies and mens FS that NBC won't cover, but the answer was negative.

Particle Man · Jan 21, 2009

I'm not going to the early groups of pairs and dance because I don't think I can take a 12-hour straight marathon of skating. I mean, at some point it's just too much in one day. I hate how they crammed all the finals into the weekend, and almost all of them on Saturday. I can't figure out the reason because if it's earlier, they can just show the taped version on TV. Is it to force people to buy 5 dollar sandwiches at the arena?

Ladies Draw

flying camel

Mathman

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

Bruin714

feraina

kate

PolymerBob

kate

Andalusia

kate

Andalusia

Tesla

PolymerBob

mskater93

Particle Man

Match Penalty

PolymerBob

Kypma

lcd

Match Penalty

LKR

Particle Man

Match Penalty

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