Joubert would like to work with Mishin

Nmsis · Jan 27, 2009

Didier Gailhaguet has given an interview about Joubert's recent results at Euros to the Nouvelle Republique newspaper.

The president of the French federation of ice sports (FFSG), Didier Gailhaguet, is relieved by the gold medal of Brian Joubert.

France has obtained only one medal in Helsinki, are you satisfied?
“First, there is the satisfaction to know that Brian Joubert is on the way of a return that we have hoped for the last three months. The preoccupations of any order (personnal and health-related) are now behind him. Satisfaction to have a European title that we did not really expect. ”

What remains to be made for Worlds and the Olympic Games?
“A lot of work remains to be done, in particular with the surrounding staff, for Worlds where it will be necessary to get the quotas for the OG. Los Angeles will be an important moment to score points in the Olympic strategy. I am confident because our leading skaters knew how to pull the team upwards. The return of Brian is important for the good spirits of the team. ”

Is Joubert in ascending form?
“He found his mental of warrior back. His short program proved it. He is very far from being ready physically, but there are eight weeks from now to Los Angeles. It is enough time (but necessary time) for Brian to reach his top form”.

13 month before the OG of Vancouver, is he in a better position than he was one year before Turin in 2006?
“Unquestionably. The experience of Turin (where he finished 6th) can only be useful to us. We know the errors made then. His environment is a lot more positive. It should quietly bring him towards the Olympic title that we all hope for. ”

Will he go to the OG with the same team and the same coach ?
"There are rumors about changes and modifications of his usual staff. Those are rumors. What is true is that Brian and his coach accept without hesitation the fact that several consultants, who will be structured around him to help him with his weaknesses and to maintain his strong points, will be more present and diverse, whether in Poitiers, whether abroad (Plushenko's russian coach has been contacted, he's saving his answer until he gets the answer about Plushenko's come back).
The goal is that Brian arrives in the best conditions, technical, artistical and psychological, on the D day.
Jean-Christophe (Simond) has exposed some wishes that we are studying. We are a federation of modest size which doesn't have endless means but we'll do anything we can to help Brian in his preparation.
I'm sure that with Jean-Christophe but also around Jean Christophe, we'll find the right people to make the right choices."

That'd be an interesting association, so close to Vancouver.
And in an interview to a local TV, Joubert said he will enter an international competition to give his new LP some mileage.

Hsuhs · Jan 27, 2009

Nmsis said:
(Plushenko's russian coach has been contacted, he's saving his answer until he gets the answer about Plushenko's come back).

Oh yeah, the comeback. Waiting for that answer may take awhile.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 27, 2009

What Joubert needs is some corrective advice on jumps. He doesn't need a new coach and he should beg Kurt to work on that terrible routine. JMO.

Meanwhile, Gailhaquet should be caring more about Ponsero who is the better skater but who also has the tendency to freeze-up in front of a crowd.

GiuliaPlum · Jan 27, 2009

Joesitz said:
What Joubert needs is some corrective advice on jumps. He doesn't need a new coach and he should beg Kurt to work on that terrible routine. JMO.

Are you referring to the SP or LP? :biggrin:

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 27, 2009

GiuliaPlum said:
Are you referring to the SP or LP?

No, just the idea that Joubert's Fed wants him to go to Mischin. I think Mischin is some sort of wizard on teaching jump techniques, so why not get the quad back?

If you are referring to Ponsero who imploded in the SP, I was not concerned about that. His overall skating is the whole package with excllent presentation and nothing gimmicky. I don't rate skaters on the last comps but on what they do on the ice and not in the air.

Tonichelle · Jan 27, 2009

Kurt is, I believe, the reason Brian didn't use him for this year's programs. Kurt didn't do much in the way of choreography this year.

Buttercup · Jan 28, 2009

Joesitz said:
I think Mischin is some sort of wizard on teaching jump techniques, so why not get the quad back?

I hadn't realized Joubert's quad had gone anywhere. He landed a good one in the SP at Euros; I think he got +1.4 GOE for the combination. You also write he should work on "that terrible routine" - would that be the SP (which I'm not crazy about but which got him a PB), or the LP, which is still new and probably wasn't quite finished in Helsinki?

I do agree that the best thing for Brian would be to get some help from Kurt Browning, but I think that one is more up to Kurt. I am glad the Federation and Joubert realize psychological preperation is also important. I hope Brian does find the optimal situation for himself.

Nmsis, thanks for posting the article. I wonder which competition Brian's thinking of entering... maybe the Challenge Cup in the Hague? It's not like he can go to the Universiade and there's not much else to choose from.

antmanb · Jan 28, 2009

The last thing Joubert needs is to focus solely on his Jumps and work with Mishin.

He needs real chorepgraphy - something that Mishin has proved he can't give.

Brian doesn't have the reputation of Plushenko and i don't think he'd get away with front loading a program full of jumps - hip thrusting on the spot and and arm flailing round the rink like someone having a epileptic fit and win.

If he feels he needs it for confidence then employ mishin as a consultant for jumps (something he is very good at) and work for a few weeks with him over the summer and just before the start of next season.

The thing he needs is a real Choreography.

Ant

elanna · Jan 28, 2009

Could anyone explain me: if Mishin is so remarkably good at teaching jumps why he couldn`t help Lambiel with his 3 Axel, why he didn`t help Lindemann with jumps? And speaking of Plushenko, as far as know he`d had a very good jumping technic before he came to Mishin!

antmanb · Jan 28, 2009

elanna said:
Could anyone explain me: if Mishin is so remarkably good at teaching jumps why he couldn`t help Lambiel with his 3 Axel, why he didn`t help Lindemann with jumps? And speaking of Plushenko, as far as know he`d had a very good jumping technic before he came to Mishin!

Teaching can only go a certain way and the rest has to be down to the talent/ability/physical condition of the skater. Lambiel had notoriously injured knees - it seemed to bother him with the take off of his axel but not with the quad (a jump that Mishin taught him to do!). Lambiel never had the same set up to the axel as a "normal" Mishin skaters and had the hunched back entrance that a lot of Canadian men seem to have, and also Kevin VDP.

As to Lindemann - Mishin is a coach not a magician

Plushenko went to Mishin at a very young age - he didn't have his harder triples or quads - something he got under Mishin.

It would be a much longer list to set out the skaters who Mishin has helped with their jumps.

Ant

elanna · Jan 28, 2009

Thank you very much for the explanation, but I do not quite agree with you. As far as I know Plushenko was 11 years old when he went to Mishin, and he could jump all triples except 3 Axel. As for Lindemann he was a wonderful jumper (just watch how he skated at 2000 Worlds) before he got that terrible injury of his. Why didn`t Mishin help him to recover his jumps and confidence if he could do it easily? Didn`t want to? Or was not capable of?

Meli_Huber · Jan 28, 2009

elanna said:
Thank you very much for the explanation, but I do not quite agree with you. As far as I know Plushenko was 11 years old when he went to Mishin, and he could jump all triples except 3 Axel. As for Lindemann he was a wonderful jumper (just watch how he skated at 2000 Worlds) before he got that terrible injury of his. Why didn`t Mishin help him to recover his jumps and confidence if he could do it easily? Didn`t want to? Or was not capable of?

Lindemann said after the short time, he and the other German Boys trained under Mishin, that he learnd so much.
The other boys, also said that.

But the time was so short, that you cannot teach a pupil very much.

Lindemann wants to go to St. Petersburg and train with Mishin full time after the split with his former coach, Miss Schindler, but the federation said, that they cannot pay for that.
He wants that, because he said, that Mishin is the only one, who can help him, because he learned so much in so short time, when he was in St. Petersburg for the first time.

So, you cannot say, that Mishin did not help Lindemann.

antmanb · Jan 28, 2009

elanna said:
Thank you very much for the explanation, but I do not quite agree with you. As far as I know Plushenko was 11 years old when he went to Mishin, and he could jump all triples except 3 Axel. As for Lindemann he was a wonderful jumper (just watch how he skated at 2000 Worlds) before he got that terrible injury of his. Why didn`t Mishin help him to recover his jumps and confidence if he could do it easily? Didn`t want to? Or was not capable of?

I think it is down the skater. Lindemann had one break out year - up to that point he'd been a very inconsistent skater. Given that he has had an injury that took him out of action for a year i think there is your answer.

Like i said Mishin is teacher not a magician - the skater has to be able, and have the capability to pull off what they are being taught.

Similarly with the choreographers - the choreographer could create a masterpiece of artisitc beauty, however, if the skater doesn't have the skill to pull it off it is down to them.

EDIT - i always though that Pluschenko went to Mishin younger than 11 - more like 8 or 9?
Ant

Ptichka · Jan 28, 2009

elanna said:
Thank you very much for the explanation, but I do not quite agree with you. As far as I know Plushenko was 11 years old when he went to Mishin, and he could jump all triples except 3 Axel.

True, but athlete's body (even male one) goes through a myriad of changes from 11 years old on. Sure, Plushenko is a natural jumper, but I do think that Mishin has done a lot to foster this.

EDITED TO ADD: Here is what Plushenko himself says on the subject (from the link below) - "But it was only called triple jumps. There was no technique, no execution. There was only my natural ability to jump high."

OTOH, I think you do have a point about Mishin's lack of success with non-Russian skaters. Mishin is a very controlling coach, and I think he does best in a full-time-I-control-everything-about-your-life type situation. I don't think his tutelage works for a more traditionally Western coach/ student relationship. Which, BTW, is a problem for many of the top Russian coaches trying to work with non-Russians, and even many of the old school Russian coaches trying to work with Russia's 21st century youth.

antmanb said:
EDIT - i always though that Pluschenko went to Mishin younger than 11 - more like 8 or 9?

No, even Plushenko's parents wouldn't allow an 8-y-o to move to Petersburg alone (I don't think). Here is an article I translated on Plushenko's life a few years back - http://ptichkafs.livejournal.com/15468.html.

elanna · Jan 28, 2009

Yes, Ptichka, you`re quite right! Coach/student relations are very impotant if a coach leads to victory, but I thought we were talking about teaching jumps not making champions. I`ve always thought that if a coach is extremely good at teaching technic to the Russians he will be successful in this case with non-Russian skaters too, but I`m afraid he is not.

Spun Silver · Jan 28, 2009

I'm not weighing in on Mishin, but the interview gives a very good idea of the pressures bearing down on the top skaters even in the West. I thought that kind of collective development of a national treasure only happened in China or the USSR. It would be pretty scary to be the piece of meat at the center of all that scrutiny and analysis. No wonder they cry when they compete.

seniorita · Jan 28, 2009

Mishin has studied physics of the jumps and invented this special vest for little skaters to start taking right positions for the jumps but he is not magician for grown ups and what can he do in a summer camp,nevertheless Lambiel has said he helped him a lot and had thanked him in public. I also think Mishin can make champions cause somehow he contributes to their character building and mentality strength, which is as important as jumps.
"Brian doesn't have the reputation of Plushenko and i don't think he'd get away with front loading a program full of jumps - hip thrusting on the spot and and arm flailing round the rink like someone having a epileptic fit and win"
Plushenko was the master and has given to skating a lot more than that and I loved his Godfather, but i have to admit I laughed on that description!

Medusa · Jan 28, 2009

seniorita said:
Plushenko was the master and has given to skating a lot more than that

He definitely has. Among my favourite programs are several Plushenko performances. I don't know why some, often Northern-American, people always fell the need to reduce him to some idiot who could barely stand, arms flailing, on the ice and only won because the judges loved him.

And I bet if Joubert would have happened to be Canadian / US-American, people would rave about his masculinity, about his aggressive style, about his ambitious nature, about his modern, crowd-pleasing choreography, his powerful massive jumps.

But he happens to be French and therefore the only thing you read is "bad spins" (I don't think they are bad anymore, they are good average this season), "zero choreography" (strange, where do all those standing ovations for him come from then? Worlds 2008, Skate Canada 2007, CoR 2008... dumb audiences, they know nothing about figure skating!), "flailing arms" (yeah, like every second male skater around these days), "arrogant jerk" (it's called honesty in other areas of the world). It's simply irritating.

skateone · Jan 28, 2009

Mishin is a good coach, not a great one. Just look at his current crop of skaters, they should be doing much better on Jump area. A good coach use a fixed set of techniques. A great one molds it around a skater 's physical condition. Lambiel, Linndemann should at least improve. Plusenko is a unique skater that Mishin happens to get.

Medusa · Jan 28, 2009

skateone said:
Mishin is a good coach, not a great one. Just look at his current crop of skaters, they should be doing much better on Jump area. A good coach use a fixed set of techniques. A great one molds it around a skater 's physical condition. Lambiel, Linndemann should at least improve. Plusenko is a unique skater that Mishin happens to get.

What about Urmanov? Yagudin? Was that also sheer luck?

Joubert would like to work with Mishin

Nmsis

Hsuhs

Joesitz (RIP)

GiuliaPlum

Joesitz (RIP)

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Buttercup

antmanb

elanna

antmanb

elanna

Meli_Huber

antmanb

Ptichka

Forum translator

elanna

Spun Silver

seniorita

Medusa

skateone

Medusa

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