"Same Jump Content"

antmanb · Jan 30, 2009

Ok so reading on the Hersch on Johnny thread, something Soogar said got me thinking but i think it's way off topic on there so have started this new one.

The comment was:

soogar said:
The past few years Johnny has been skating on autopilot. He's had good performances but he hasn't really "grown" as an athlete or competitor. At the Olympic practices in 2002 he was practicing beautiful quad-triples and if memory serves me right I think he did a 4-3-3 that looked effortless. Years later he is still doing the same jump content, same spins and his skating seems as if it has lost some spark.

While I think the comment is absolutely right and I agree (mostly) with what is written, my observation of it is - and so what?

Artistically I understand that people should grow - after all don't the skaters spend their whole skating lives attempting to get to the senior circuit by getting the big elements. It's only after they have the big elements (read jumps and high level spins) that they then tend to concentrate on presentation. All the debates we've had about a more mature/older skater will have a greater understanding of music and ability to interpret the music/wishes of the choreographer etc.

So what do we actually expect of our skaters who have been on the senior circuit for a number of years. The criticism of not "upping the technical ante" gets thrown around about Kwan an awful lot and about other skaters, but really - what more can the skaters give?

By and large the talent of skaters that gets to the senior elite level (for me this means international competition - GPs, Champinships, even senior competitions) will either have all the big jumps or have the last two or three to get or get consistent. What more can we expect? Once they're trying or attempting all they can - how else can they up the technical ante? Don't we constantly ask about how old skaters are before they can no longer "learn" new jumps?

So do people really expect a skater who has been ont he senior circuit for 3 or more years to start including new, harder elements?

Ant

Buttercup · Jan 30, 2009

I expect skaters to challenge themselves in their careers. This can mean different things: for people who came in as jumpers, it would mean working more on their presentation, or on getting better transitions. For skaters whose jump content is not as difficult as it can be, I expect them to at least make an effort to progress in this area. Jeffrey Buttle is a good example: he never did get that quad consistent, but at least he gave it his best shot, until it was obvious that he energies were best focused elsewhere.

If a skater can do a quad, I want to see it in the SP, not just in the LP (I never understood why it's considered riskier in the short - the LP is much more exhausting, I'd think). If a ladies' skater can do a 3-2, work on a 3-3. If it's a 3T-3T - work on something harder. If you have everything, work on making the jumps better. Try to make your edgework better, or to increase your speed in step sequences. There's always something to do, and I think elite athletes look for challenges.

The bottom line is that I want to see skaters become better performers as their career progresses, and also push to be better athletes (within reason).

NatachaHatawa · Jan 30, 2009

In all fairness, this new system doesn't make such variety and progress worth it. Under the old system, judges could have taken into acount the fact that the skater had different jumps to the previous season, but with this system, it's just impossible.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 30, 2009

antmanb said:
Ok so reading on the Hersch on Johnny thread, something Soogar said got me thinking but i think it's way off topic on there so have started this new one.

The comment was:

While I think the comment is absolutely right and I agree (mostly) with what is written, my observation of it is - and so what?

Artistically I understand that people should grow - after all don't the skaters spend their whole skating lives attempting to get to the senior circuit by getting the big elements. It's only after they have the big elements (read jumps and high level spins) that they then tend to concentrate on presentation. All the debates we've had about a more mature/older skater will have a greater understanding of music and ability to interpret the music/wishes of the choreographer etc.

So what do we actually expect of our skaters who have been on the senior circuit for a number of years. The criticism of not "upping the technical ante" gets thrown around about Kwan an awful lot and about other skaters, but really - what more can the skaters give?

By and large the talent of skaters that gets to the senior elite level (for me this means international competition - GPs, Champinships, even senior competitions) will either have all the big jumps or have the last two or three to get or get consistent. What more can we expect? Once they're trying or attempting all they can - how else can they up the technical ante? Don't we constantly ask about how old skaters are before they can no longer "learn" new jumps?

So do people really expect a skater who has been ont he senior circuit for 3 or more years to start including new, harder elements?

Ant

Very good post. A big problem in figure skating is that it is very limited in elements and steps (like Ballet). There is just so much a skater can do in reality in the way of Tech. Innovation, imo, is not to be found in Figure Skating.

Like Ballet and other forms of Dance, music is the most important factor in choreography. Choreography is the keystone in how the audience is taken in by the performer. It's not about Quads, Convoluted Spins, tired old Footwork. Those elements are well served in the Technical portion of the score. It's about innovation. Show the audience something besides what you have always done.

Johnny, imo, has not given much in the way of new Tech, and his music and choreography bares so much resemblance to all his work, that he is forced to skate a 'clean routine' in competition. I believe his gala skates are more diversified, but I do not see it in his competitive work. I also believe that is what affected his less than perfect skate in Cleveland.

Let's hope it will not happen again. He has a year to make changes. It's up to him. As a favorite of mine, I am hoping he will.

"Same Jump Content"

antmanb

Buttercup

NatachaHatawa

Joesitz (RIP)

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