NBC or ABC, Who is the Better U.S. Broadcaster?

Red Dog said:

Not sure why so many people are eager for fluffs again. During the ABC days folks were complaining about the excessive fluffs and wanted more skating. Now that they GET more skating, they want the fluffs back. hwell:

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I want more of BOTH! Broadcasters simply should allocate more hours to their figure skating coverage to accomodate both, period.

Well, OK, I know it's not that simple for them. Under time constraints, showing more second-tier skaters is better than showing more fluff pieces for me. But I must admit I like short reports/mini documentary type things such as Caroline Zhang taking a small lesson from Michelle Kwan that NBC showed last year. I find skaters more respectable and/or more adorable by watching these things. After all, didn't American people get to know more about Michelle and Sasha through ABC's countless fluffs? (OK, maybe not.) Also I like watching the backstage. In last year's Worlds coverage by ABC they showed this ladies SP summary with Terry Gannon narrating over it. Well, I know it sucks that full skating was not shown, but this summary portion with skaters in the backstage looking at their protocols and getting interviewed by the media from around the world, having happy moments and sad moments...etc. I got the chance to see what the skaters went through after the skating, it was candid, more candid than kiss and cry. Sure, it was through the eyes of the ABC camera crews and filtered through the minds of the video editing people in the console room, but this kind of taking a look at what's going on in the backstage actually makes me want to root for all these skaters even more and makes me wish them the best of luck in their subsequent events.

And I liked Browning Breakdown and Push Dicks Button too. NBC should get a permission from ESPN and continue this with Kurt, or if that's impossible, do that with Scott.

Actually, NBC (IIRC?) was the one that started the "Push Dick's Button" segment during the Torino Olympics. It was ESPN/ABC that actually borrowed that and carried it over into their broadcasts. Last year, NBC had Button and Bob Costas host the US Nats, and had a bunch of talking heads duing the coverage, especially in the afternoon (much like the Super Bowl pre-game show, for those that watched that). This year, they went with more skating and less talk (definitely a welcome move by me). I'd assume that since next year's Nationals serve as the US Olympic trials, that we'll see Costas (and maybe Button) back next year.

Actually, there WAS a plus to having Costas/Button there: it gave the Nationals more of a "big event feel". But one cannot please everybody- I never thought I'd see the day where folks said that they wanted more fluff pieces. seriously. I think the coverage is fine as is. Save the fluffs for the Olympics, or put them online and tell people to view them there so they can show more skating. Perhaps then that will make both parties happy.

Yeah that's right, I recall Push Dick's Button from the Turin Olympic time, maybe it was NBC, maybe it was in those Olympic Ice episodes on USA Network? I don't remember which.

Save the fluffs for the Olympics, or put them online and tell people to view them there so they can show more skating.

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True. I enjoyed watching Katrina Hacker's and Alex Shibutani's videos posted on Ice Network. Maybe I shouldn't demand everything be shown on TV in HD.

Actually, the one thing I would suggest to improve NBC coverage is to add an opening montage to the Ladies FS broadcast. I notice NBC (and ABC in their final year) just start out the telecast with backstage coverage of the skaters, which is fine, but I think the competitors and contenders should be briefly introduced to the viewing audience in a SHORT, dramatic fluff piece (i.e. can Skater X hold off Skater Y and defend her title?). This is vital now that there is no MK or Sasha Cohen or even Kimmie Meissner in the field that folks would be familiar with. This year's nationals had all new faces, basically. Of course, skate fans would be familiar with veteran Czisny but I doubt the casual fan tuning in even had a clue who she was. If there is a TV-generated buildup to the event, that might keep viewers interested and want to sit through the event to its conclusion.

Of course, they should do this for the men's FS telecast as well. As for the general Sat. afternoon segment, maybe that's fine as is.

A few thoughts: Through the years, I've preferred ABC/ESPN coverage. I miss "Uncle Dick," warts and all, Terry, Peggy (when she had something substantial to say - I did appreciate when she would try to say something encouraging about a skater, even if things didn't go so well), Paul, Susie Wynn, Brian B. (mid 1990's). I don't mind Peter at all when he commentates (he should not be doing those silly, on the spot interviews). Always liked Tracie Wilson and Verne L. (CBS, right?) I miss the "golden years" when we got to see the top two flights of skaters (1996 and 1997 Worlds - men's free skate come to mind). I'm not anti-fluff - actually all those "up close & personal" pieces that ABC did helped me "get to know" the skaters a little better (including interviews with the skaters' parents) - I like that. I miss the USFSA fall/winter/spring challenges too.

I like Scott as a skater, appreciate his enthusiasm, & am eternally grateful that he created the SOI tour, but I have mixed feelings for him as a commentator (especially when he screeches his way through a broadcast). I hate the "Truth Booth!" I do hope that NBC will absolutely bring back "Olympic Ice" next February (complete with "Push Dick's Button). That was my favorite part of the Olympic skating coverage last time around. Give me Kurt's "Browning Breakdown" and Tamara Moskvina's witty comments too.

You are SO right about the dumb Truth Booth. It adds nothing. ABC/ESPN's skater profiles were sometimes fluffy but at least they were interesting. Hope the Truth Booth gets left behind during Worlds, let alone the Olympics.

Red Dog said:

Not sure why so many people are eager for fluffs again. During the ABC days folks were complaining about the excessive fluffs and wanted more skating. Now that they GET more skating, they want the fluffs back. hwell:

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I don't remember fluffs during LIVE competitions, but there were many fluffs during Disson shows especially at Christmas times.

mwood said:

You are SO right about the dumb Truth Booth. It adds nothing. ABC/ESPN's skater profiles were sometimes fluffy but at least they were interesting. Hope the Truth Booth gets left behind during Worlds, let alone the Olympics.

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i agree. I can't believe that they brought it back again this year. Waste of time.

Joesitz said:

I don't remember fluffs during LIVE competitions, but there were many fluffs during Disson shows especially at Christmas times.

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That's different. Disson shows are for entertainment. US Nationals is a sporting event (or at least is considered as such by the networks).

Also, I'm in the minority again but I think the TB actually is a good way for the skaters to talk about their performances without reporters asking the usual stupid, typical questions. Now, as to whether we get more insight from it or not, of course that would depend on the skater.

iluvtodd said:

....That was my favorite part of the Olympic skating coverage last time around. Give me Kurt's "Browning Breakdown" ....

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I agree that "OI" should come back, but only if they do away with Mary what's her name. Get someone who actually appreciates the sport as a sport, and not a laughing matter. Her negative look on it just annoyed me to no end.

IIRC, Jamie and David will be working for Canadian TV for the Olys? Or maybe it's just this year's worlds.

Browning's Breakdown was on ABC... I doubt we'll see NBC hire him back after his 'disasterous' 94 Worlds... which they made more of a deal out of than need be.

Tonichelle said:

I agree that "OI" should come back, but only if they do away with Mary what's her name. Get someone who actually appreciates the sport as a sport, and not a laughing matter. Her negative look on it just annoyed me to no end.

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Aww, I Mary Carillo! I never got the impression that she was unappreciative of skating as a sport. In everything I've seen her report on for the Winter and Summer Olympics, she has a jovial, lighthearted, comical stance and I think she's just trying to be entertaining, and IMO, she is succeeding. She's like the court jester for NBC . . . that's her personality. She's not just singling out figure skating and seemingly mocking it; she does that with everything and she's usually making fun of herself more than anything/anyone else. She's one of my favorite sports commentators/reporters for her wit and sense of humor. :thumbsup:

There's so much to laugh at about figure skating and the athletes, coaches, judges, governing body, fans, drama, and controversy that circulate around it that I really don't blame her for the comic relief. If we couldn't laugh about the absurdity of it all sometimes, I think we would have to have ourselves committed, don't you think?

champs said:

Under time constraints, showing more second-tier skaters is better than showing more fluff pieces for me. But I must admit I like short reports/mini documentary type things such as Caroline Zhang taking a small lesson from Michelle Kwan that NBC showed last year. I find skaters more respectable and/or more adorable by watching these things.

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Exactly. It MATTERS if people know SOMETHING about the stories of top skaters on the ice. Well-done "fluff" pieces give us that, they tell you WHO is skating, instead of just a name, a face and a costume.

Red Dog said:

I would suggest NBC add an opening montage to the Ladies FS broadcast. I think the competitors and contenders should be briefly introduced to the viewing audience in a SHORT, dramatic fluff piece (i.e. can Skater X hold off Skater Y and defend her title?). This is vital now that there is no MK or Sasha Cohen or even Kimmie Meissner in the field that folks would be familiar with.

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Yep, that could be enough. Just something.

Particle Man said:

Yep, that could be enough. Just something.

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I personally would do nothing else. Man, you must have been the producer for ESPN skating broadcasts or something just kidding.

BTW, your quotation of my statement is off slightly. my exact quote was "The one thing I would suggest to improve NBC coverage is to add an opening montage to the Ladies FS broadcast." Just thought you'd know.


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I think one WELL-DONE fluff piece is sufficient, like the one NBC did on Mirai's struggles this season. I think it told the story of the current state of US skating pretty well. It also portrayed the "tougher" part of skating, i.e. not the pretty dresses and costumes that you see all the time. What ESPN/ABC did, in my honest opinion, was overkill. We don't need to see Cohen at the make-up store or Kimmie eating breakfast, for instance. If I were producing the telecast, though, I would have also had the commentators mention the withdrawals of Meissner and Hughes. Or, at least paint a sort of quick picture of where the U.S. stands internationally (i.e. mention GP results), so viewers have an idea of what they can expect at the Olympics. I figured NBC, as the Olympic network, would have done this, but to my surprise, they haven't.

I condensed it to save space. The critical meaning was preserved.

I care because I see the sport slowly dying. Most don't want to listen to arguments about changing the scoring system, so maybe at least they can go back to having a few interesting fluff pieces so new people can know the skaters. Think about '09 Nationals for an uninitiated viewer. Not only do you not know anyone, the results may not make sense. Why watch that?

Particle Man said:

I condensed it to save space. The critical meaning was preserved.

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Just a little aside, but to avoid confusion and misquotation issues, if you want to cut out parts, you should put three dots (or [snip] ) every time you cut out words from a direct quote. Such as

...I would suggest...NBC...add an opening montage...

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or even

...I would suggest [that NBC should] add an opening montage...

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then it would be clearer that you took out words, but of course you have to be very careful not to change the original meaning of the statement. I hope you know I'm not saying this to criticize you or anything, but this has been a hot topic in many instances.

Particle Man said:

I care because I see the sport slowly dying. Most don't want to listen to arguments about changing the scoring system, so maybe at least they can go back to having a few interesting fluff pieces so new people can know the skaters. Think about '09 Nationals for an uninitiated viewer. Not only do you not know anyone, the results may not make sense. Why watch that?

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I can speak to this latter part. Typically, I only watch gymnastics during the Olympics. But a couple years ago during the summer (I think this was 2007), I managed to be flipping channels and saw gymnastics on NBC. I realized it was the national meet and decided, oh, what the heck, there's nothing else on. (i.e. I was a casual fan). I remember watching the coverage, and the network hyping Nastia Liukin as an Olympic hopeful. But every time she did a routine she made some kind of major mistake and I'm thinking, why are they making such a big deal about her if she's just crumbling under the pressure here? The commentators said nothing about her being injured or anything, at least not that I can remember. All I remember is that Shawn Johnson beat her pretty soundly. And the commentators said next to nothing about HER being an Olympic hopeful. I remember once the telecast was concluded, I was thinking, Shawn should have been the one they were promoting. Anyway, it wasn't until afterwards (I think during another telecast, ironically) that I realized that Nastia was out with an injury and was in recovery mode. And I found myself wanting her to do well. So I was well aware of the two before Beijing (through watching the numerous Olympic trials events leading up to the Games), and that allowed me to have a little more investment in the event.

So, this long-winded statement is just another way for me to say, if the casual fan watches enough competitions, he/she will get to know the skaters ANYWAY. The issue is how many competitions are shown on TV and how easy they are to catch. The casual fan probably sees the Disson shows a lot more often, but only twice a year do they get to assess the actual field of FS competitors. You could fill a telecast with fluffs and that would not get people wanting to watch skating. You must show them a good amount of skating as well. I think it worked better for ESPN/ABC because despite the enormous amount of fluff, they had COVERAGE OF MORE COMPETITIONS so eventually, the casual viewer saw enough skating. NBC only covers SA and US Nats; filling those telecasts with pointless fluff pieces is just going to drive away potential fans and anger the diehards. The one thing I think they should do is refer more to international results so viewers get a realistic idea of how the US stacks up to the World. Then, during the Olympics, you can show the human interest pieces.

completely agree with RD


isn't Nastia also related to past Olympic Gymnasts (medalists?)

commentators give background on the athletes 9 times out of 10 anyway. Think Alissa Cizsny and nationals - Scott and Sandra and Tom went back and listed not only her faults and her accomplishments but they explained why fans and the commentators themselves were cheering for Alissa. Mirai got her moment of being national champion and dealing with growth spurts and injuries...

and all without costly fluff pieces.

yes, that means they were talking a lot, but if that allows them to show one or two more second tier skaters so be it. Nine times out of ten if they'd had a fluff piece they would have still said the same stuff, which is just redundant. They did it enough during the Olympics, and ABC was notorious for it(talk about saying the same things over and over).

Toni you've already made your position clear. You hate all fluff. You keep painting all fluff as terrible and worthless, you keep pretending the worst case scenario is all there is -- that's fallacy. ABC had lots of worthless fluff, but that doesn't mean all fluff is worthless. Even RD wants at least some kind of background given at the beginning. Even he acknowledges that this would be helpful. If you don't, I don't care. Repeating the same invalid argument doesn't make it correct.

isn't Nastia also related to past Olympic Gymnasts (medalists?)

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Her dad was an OGM, IIRC. Strangely enough, he is also her coach.

PM, I agree with Toni here. Sorry, but I think they're a waste of time for the most part. Do one at the beginning to set up the competition...OR do one like Caroline Zhang at MK's rink in 2008 (I actually missed that one, but heard about it) or Nagasu this season. If NBC could teach ABC anything about skating coverage, it's when to do fluffs and how to do them. (also, HD cameras!!!)

I'm pretty sure her mom was a gymnast too.