Article on Sasha Cohen | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Article on Sasha Cohen

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Aside from the comments pro and con of Sasha, I am struck by the talk about practicing full routines every day even twice a day.

On a technical note, I have heard Russian coaching is half a routine one day and the other half the next day. I don't know if that is true. But, if it is, then that's Tarassova's method. Is it bad? Certinaly not for Yags. Is it bad for Sasha? who knows? I don't think TT is a singles coach. Maybe the method worked for Dance (and Yags),

I don't think of competitive skaters as all being homogenized. They come from various walks of life, and no two are the same. What's good for the Goose may not be good for the Gander.

I would say full routines every day but then I am not a coach. However, I believe one has to work up the stamina. Breathing at the right places is a must! No skater should tire during the last minute of the routine.

Joe
 

registered

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Fossi said:
I'm sure her PR team has a bit to do with the article. She was interviewed and observed during practice, was she not?

The author surely had to ask for her permission to be present during the practice, if he wanted to write about Sasha's practice, and ask her and Tarasova couple of questions.
 

tharrtell

TriGirl Rinkside
On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
registered said:
Not going through the full routine regularly, is what causes Sasha "loss of focus," not what's written in this or that article. I doubt that any skater goes out in the competition thinking: "OK, so and so wrote, that I may become the best skater ever. I should not let him/her down."

I disagree. For some people, others' expectations weigh heavily and can very definitely affect performance. It's additional pressure in an already pressure-filled situation.
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
"I'm stronger now," Cohen said. "I have a whole off-ice training routine to build endurance. I train 20 to 25 hours a week, mostly on the ice, but there's also swimming, running, a weight room where I lift free weights and on machines. Two weeks ago, for the first time, I finished my long program and said, 'Wow, I can breathe.' "

From this I think she dose full run through now. IIRC last season I read somewhere mentioned that TT did not have Sasha do full runthrough is because Sasha is not physically strong enough to do regular runthrough in each practice.
 

Verbalgirl77

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
On a technical note, I have heard Russian coaching is half a routine one day and the other half the next day. I don't know if that is true. But, if it is, then that's Tarassova's method. Is it bad? Certinaly not for Yags. Is it bad for Sasha? who knows? I don't think TT is a singles coach. Maybe the method worked for Dance (and Yags),

You know, you are right in a sense. But I also remember times when skaters like Yags and Petrenko looked completely out of gas for the last 60 seconds of their program. I think skaters like Plushenko (who also did do full not run throughs at worlds) can get around it by front-loading and middle-loading(?) their programs. I do realize he was injured. :)

I remember final combo spins just sputtering out at the ends of programs, when they really should be helping to build momentum for a big climax.

But I think Yagudin's ability to REALLY get in shape in 2002 helped him immensely. He still looked tired IMHO but he was able to maintain the emotional intensity of the program and not skate sloppily, but with focus.

Being amazingly gifted athletes (as Kulik & Urmanov also were) their jumps were still able to hold up. They were also mentally focused enough that they could maintain that momentum throughout the program without major (and minor) mistakes.

Sasha has not yet been able to show that kind of focus on a consistent basis. To me, doing full runthroughs seem like a MUST to me to help a skater like Sasha feel confident when she has to do an entire program in competition. She'd know exactly how tired she'd be at the 2 minute, 3 minute, 3:30 mark, etc. and also how pumped up she'd be.

It just seems like a no-brainer to me.

ETA - I like all of the Russian men I listed above. I'm not trying to put them in a negative light. I'm just saying that just because they were able to be successful using that traning method, doesn't necessarily mean they were successful because of it.

They may have been so good that they were able to rise above it.

Again, just IMHO, shootin' the breeze in the pre-season. :)
 

swannanoa54

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
I found this article on Sasha

to be interesting and annoying all at once.

First off, didn't Sasha do only 3/4 of her program at Sun Valley or whatever valley? And she said she wasn't winded? But that's only 3/4 of her program. And if they work on sections of a program each day, why NOT do at least ONE complete run through with the jumps? From this article it sounded as if Sasha did her full program only once and wasn't winded. Gee, that's almost telling me they front-loaded her program again. Although I found it was nice to hear that she has been working with an off-ice trainer. Maybe this helps.

As far as the "best female skater ever" goes, puh-lease. Sasha is way behind on the winning curve. She's going to be rated above a 3-time Olympic and however many times World champion, Sonja Henie? I think not. She's going to be rated best above a 2-time Olympic gold medal winner and however many times World Champion, Katarina Witt? I think not. And, behind an Olympic Silver and Bronze medalist, 5 time World Champion and 7 time National champion, Michelle Kwan? Really? So when is she going to be "the best female skater ever"?

I love to watch Sasha skate, sometimes. Other times, I don't feel anything because she leaves me cold. She shows such promise and such potential, but those aren't anything if you can't "show up". Hopefully she does that this year. I really would like to see her win Nationals this year. But then again, I'd like to see MK win, AP win, Jenny win, etc. I like figure skating, what can I say?
 

sk8 star

Spectator
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
I agree

enough with the (excuse me), BS about Sasha being #1 and best ever. Are we all going to have to listen to all of this hype this year only to see her crash in all of the important events. People seem to forget, she is still seeking a major title. GP Final is not a major title. She does not even have a medal from World's or for that matter, Jr. World's. At least AP and Kirk have those.
 

peachstatesk8er

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
I may need a reading comprehension course or something, or perhaps I just don't take things as literally as some, but here are my thoughts:

What Sasha said about SV, I took to mean she was doing 3/4 of her program for the first time in public, not for the first time ever. That wouldn't make any sense because you run through things many times while choreographing a program. Or perhaps she only had 3/4 of it done at that time. It was only an exhibition after all.

I took her comment about not being winded as it was the first time she'd not been winded at the end of a program, indicating that she is making progress on stamina.

Skaters don't just do run through after run through in every session they skate and they skate several sessions daily. Some time is spent working on sections, tweaking details, without jumps. On other sessions they do run throughs. I didn't see any indication in the article that she never, ever did full run throughs. In fact, she said recently in her journal that she'd been doing just that, run throughs of her programs.

I think it's a good thing that she's been doing a lot of off ice conditioning as well; sounds like she's working very hard for the upcoming season.

I take these articles with a grain of salt, but some people like to get all in a wad over them. They're written for fans, not skating experts, it's meant to be fluff and hype. I don't hold that against the skater themselves, we all know reporters like to put their own slant on whatever story they're working on.
 

ritymeez

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Musicality and Sasha Cohen

I just don't believe it. Whenever she skates, it seems like she is trying so hard not to fall that she forgets the music.

Her comment of other skaters being choreographed makes me laugh. IMHO, I think that if she is musical, why then is she doing her programs in parts? By doing it in parts, it shows that she knows the choreography pretty well and 'not' going with the flow of the music (how could you when it's split up that way).

Sasha is a great athlete, but oh please, when Dick said that she has "She has brilliant technique," I was about to laugh.

Well, that's my two cents.
 

ballerinagrl

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Well, I guess it's that time of year again, and the press love publishing these build-up to-the-season-proper gushing reports, crammed full of superlatives.

Personally I find Sasha an extremely exciting skater. She is definitely one of my favourites. I love her form, extensions, and balletic grace. I really do believe she has something very special on the presentation side, something one doesn't see so very often.

BUT, I find watching her in competition a painful experience, as I'm sure all her fans do. It hurts to see so much potential crashing out on jumps she can doubtless do in her sleep. It worries me that articles such as this one will put yet more pressure on a girl who has already proved herself far from able to deal with it. I hope that as she matures, and TT figures out a training regime better tailored to meeting Sasha's specific needs, watching her may become easier.

I do feel she needs to be doing back-to-back runthroughs of both programs, with jumps, plus considerably more stamina training. At the elite level, unless you are skating at unaccustomed altitude, one should never be breathless at the end of a program, unless it's from excitement! I am relieved to learn she is doing considerably more off-ice training than she was last season, and from what she says I guess it sounds as though things are improving on the stamina front, so I am hopeful.

We always knew last year was going to be a transition year for her, and I guess that being the case she rather surpassed what I'd expected from her. BUT when it really mattered she mostly reverted back to those quite shocking (at the elite level) errors.

I wish her all the best for this season, I'm definitely on her cheering squad, but unless she learns how to deal with the pressure she puts on herself, I fear she is going to be overtaken by talented kids like Yukina Ota, whatever Dick Button thinks!
 

peachstatesk8er

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
ballerinagrl said:


At the elite level, unless you are skating at unaccustomed altitude, one should never be breathless at the end of a program, unless it's from excitement!

I disagree with this. After LP's in particular you'll see almost *every* skater out of breath/breathing really hard. Not falling on the floor about to pass out, but think about those dumb K&C moments, everyone is sweating and a bit breathless and trust me, excitement has little to do with it most of the time. If they weren't in great shape, they'd have passed out halfway through; anyone that can finish, a LP especially, is not doing poorly in the stamina dept.

.....sitting here LOL at all the armchair coaching when I'm willing to bet 99% of the posters here have never even skated an ISI Alpha program in competition much less been on the elite track. :laugh: Unless you've been there and done it, you truly don't have a clue what it's like.
 

Dustin

Custom Title
Rinkside
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
peachstatesk8er said:
.....sitting here LOL at all the armchair coaching when I'm willing to bet 99% of the posters here have never even skated an ISI Alpha program in competition much less been on the elite track. :laugh: Unless you've been there and done it, you truly don't have a clue what it's like.

Exactly. A 4 minute program with 7 triples is not easy (I am currently only doing a 3.5 minute with 3 triples), an no matter how trained someone is, they will be near breathless. Some may be better to cover it up better than others, but you can be sure that they are very tired and breathless.

About what Dick Button and Peggy Fleming said, I put more credibility in their comments than I do of the casual poster, skater, or skating parent who just reads something someone posted (which is usually not true or greatly embellished) and just brings it up again and again without even bothering to look for the facts. People don't seem to realize Button is a 2-time Olympic Champion and Fleming is also an Olympic Champion. They DO know what they are talking about. They have trained, they have done the programs (although their programs did not have the 7 triples and a quad or two), they have watched skating for decades, and they have talked with many other top authorities on the sport.
 

Sidejehoka

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I don't want to tread on anybody's toes but judging from what I've realized during interviews or their comments on TV Button & Fleming seem to me kind of living in their own world. Perhaps it is normal for American commentators to talk about their skaters in such an uncritical and prejudiced way, but this behaviour, this continuous gushing makes these two no authorities in skating to me - neither in technical questions nor when it comes to give a relevant, realistic estimation of a performance or a skater's achievements.
I'm by far no specialist myself but when I read that Dick Button confirms that Sasha was a "brilliant technician" this makes me lose my respect for this man.
When Tarasova says "She's very talented" and "It's very hard work" - this makes her credible in my eyes. After all she's the one who should know Sasha best and I'm glad at least she doesn't put it like everything will be a children's play for Sasha.
 

peachstatesk8er

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
Sidejehoka said:
I'm by far no specialist myself but when I read that Dick Button confirms that Sasha was a "brilliant technician" this makes me lose my respect for this man.

Actually Sasha does have excellent technique. Having good technique does not mean you'll never, trip, falter, or fall like some fans seem to think. When they mention her technique, they're referring to the fact that Sasha has excellent step up into her axel, incredible position in the air on her jumps, good flow out of them (when she lands them well), incredible extension and position in her spins, and the best pointed feet outside of the icedance events, among other things. Skaters with great technique are not always perfect. Michelle, Angela, Paul Wylie all have good, even great, technique, do they occasionally falter? Yes. Doesn't mean their lousy technichians.
 

tharrtell

TriGirl Rinkside
On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Stamina question: I'm no skater, but I've done many endurance athletic events. So, while I know nothing about stating for 4 minutes, I know a lot about stamina. Why is it normal that a skater end a LP out of breath? That just seems wrong to me. It's not difficult to build endurance. I was quite pleased to read that Sasha had been running over the summer because that is an excellent, maybe the best, way to build endurance which I would expect would only help one's skating.

I remember watching Angela at Skate America a few years back - I believe it was held in Colorado Springs that year - and she just fell apart at the end. It appeared as though she just didn't have the steam to finish. Yes, Colorado Springs is at altitude, but there were other skaters who didn't have an issue. It just seems as though this is a pretty easy thing to fix. Why struggle through a program if you don't have to? Seems to me like any coach would make that a part of the training regimen.
 

Verbalgirl77

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Exactly. A 4 minute program with 7 triples is not easy (I am currently only doing a 3.5 minute with 3 triples), an no matter how trained someone is, they will be near breathless. Some may be better to cover it up better than others, but you can be sure that they are very tired and breathless.

You know, you are right. However, seeing what Nancy & Paul Wylie's struggles were with consistency, and what they did in the final year of their amateur careers to remedy that problem by doing full (sometimes double) run-throughs in practice really seemed to be able be able to build their confidence AND endurance in the 'big' event.

Maybe I don't have room to talk as a fan/non-skater ::shrugs:: But I always throught the key to being the best skater in the world was to make the impossible look easy and effortless. With Sasha, she's so talented and athletic, endurance doesn't seem to be a problem with her. She seems to always be in great shape.

To me, it seems like it would be such a confience builder for her, to know that she's done it so many times in practice that she has that history of run-throughs in her mind that she can fall back on.

All I'm going on is the contents of the article, that's why when I originally brought up that quote, I said I hoped that wasn't her regular routine to not do full run-throughs. If she is doing them somewhat regularly, then kudos to her! I think it will help her.
 

Figureskates

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I agree with Peach on this point.

I share the ice with elite skaters and have watched them do their
long programs and at the end are breathing hard. Anf they will do their program multiple times too.

I am working on a 1:40 program as an adult and after a slow go through, I am ready for a paramedic!!! Skaters who can do a hard long program have got my undieing admiration!!
 

peachstatesk8er

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
tharrtell said:
Stamina question: I'm no skater, but I've done many endurance athletic events. So, while I know nothing about stating for 4 minutes, I know a lot about stamina. Why is it normal that a skater end a LP out of breath? That just seems wrong to me. It's not difficult to build endurance. I was quite pleased to read that Sasha had been running over the summer because that is an excellent, maybe the best, way to build endurance which I would expect would only help one's skating.

I

Why do they breathe hard at the end? Because what they're doing is difficult even for those in incredible shape. And if it helps, look at sprinters and long distance runners, all out of breath at the end of an event. Not because they're out of shape, but because what they're doing is extremely difficult to do. If they're not out of breath, they're still breathing very hard. And sure, the more you do it, the easier it is. Easier, not easy. Just doing one triple takes a lot of energy, but take that and do 5-6 more of them along with footwork, spins and choreography, and the concentration it takes to get each and every movement just right over the course of 4 minutes and it is incredibly tiring. Even sans jumps, a program is tiring, look at ice dancers.
 
Last edited:

Dustin

Custom Title
Rinkside
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
tharrtell said:
Stamina question: I'm no skater, but I've done many endurance athletic events. So, while I know nothing about stating for 4 minutes, I know a lot about stamina. Why is it normal that a skater end a LP out of breath? That just seems wrong to me. It's not difficult to build endurance..... Yes, Colorado Springs is at altitude, but there were other skaters who didn't have an issue. It just seems as though this is a pretty easy thing to fix. Why struggle through a program if you don't have to? Seems to me like any coach would make that a part of the training regimen.

It's easy to build stamina? News to me... I think if you ask any skater, they will tell you that building stamina is NOT easy but actually very difficult.
 
Top