AEGON Challenge Cup | Page 3 | Golden Skate

AEGON Challenge Cup

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Thanks for the results. Happy to see Jamai win the bronze,
I really like his skating.
 

Hsuhs

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
To me, Jamal's bronze was a real highlight of the mens :clap::)
(I still can't believe it)
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
What happened to Yannick Ponsero? He can do so much better! I hope he'll be in better form at Worlds.
 

OnTheEdge

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Congrats to US Jr. Ladies Ellie 2nd and DeeDee 4th. Nice job to Joshua Farris - great competitive career ahead, looking forward to it!!
 

NatachaHatawa

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
I've just had a look at the results, and here's two things that have struck me:

1) KVDP's LP artistic grade:
I usually love Kevin, but I still don't get why this year's LP is getting such high grades when it's awful.

2) the value of a downgraded 4T:
I was looking at the guys' grades in detail, and I noticed that KVDP did a 4T that was underoatated, so its base value is 4 points. How is that possible??? That's less than a 3T!!! No wonder no-one is taking risks!

Anyway, I'm delighted for Jamal, it's great to know he's back in shape.:thumbsup: I hope Yannick stresses out less at worlds.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
the value of a downgraded 4T:
I was looking at the guys' grades in detail, and I noticed that KVDP did a 4T that was underoatated, so its base value is 4 points. How is that possible??? That's less than a 3T!!! No wonder no-one is taking risks!
No, the base value is the same for a UR quad toe and a 3T. The 3T Kevin had in his LP was in the second half, so he got an extra 10% on the base value. Of course the negative GOEs on the UR quad made it almost worthless, but that's true for any downgraded jump. I've noticed that the judges no longer give URs an automatic -3; I guess they think the skaters are being punished enough by losing most of the base value.

What I don't get is why negative quad GOEs are worth 1.6 each (so -3 really means -4.8) while positive quad GOEs appear to be worth one point each. How does this make sense? I'm all for making sure only people who can do the jump do it, but the GOEs should be worth the same whether positive or negative. Or is my math just wrong?
 

Hsuhs

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
1) KVDP's LP artistic grade:
I usually love Kevin, but I still don't get why this year's LP is getting such high grades when it's awful.

But isn't this year's LP of his practically the same as last year's? Kev rocked with that program in G-borg, and he rocked again yesterday (people in the arena went nuts :rofl:).

Speaking of awful, wasn't Brian Joubert's new long program awful, at least at the first showing in Euros? Strictly speaking, it wasn't even a program. But he won with it.
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Speaking of awful, wasn't Brian Joubert's new long program awful, at least at the first showing in Euros? Strictly speaking, it wasn't even a program. But he won with it.
That's not true. He won with his SP, which isn't at all awful (aside from those hip movements at the start) :biggrin:. Personally I didn't think the LP was awful. It wasn't Brian at his best, but he hasn't been at his best in an LP all season, and this at least showed potential (BTW, I think he hasn't finished first in the LP in any international event since 2007 Euros). To me, the new LP looked like what it is - a work in progress. I hope to see it better performed at Worlds.

I'm really happy Kevin was able to skate, he looked to be in so much pain at Euros - a medal is just a bonus. I would love to see him medal at Worlds, I'm not sure considering his age and medical problems how much longer he will be able to continue.

If anything, I have to question Contesti's PCS - from what I've seen of him, 74 seems excessive.
 
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Hsuhs

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
That's not true. He won with his SP, which isn't at all awful (aside from those hip movements at the start) :biggrin:. Personally I didn't think the LP was awful. It wasn't Brian at his best, but he hasn't been at his best in an LP all season, and this at least showed potential (BTW, I think he hasn't finished first in the LP in any international event since 2007 Euros). To me, the new LP looked like what it is - a work in progress. I hope to see it better performed at Worlds.

Yeah, I know Brian had a lead after the SP, I'm not questioning his winning, I'm just surprised the judges saw so much artistic value in that LP mess. A PCS of 74.60, the highest among all men, huh? But this is an OT, I guess, since Brian didn't skate in ACC.
 

eleonora.d

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Speaking of awful, wasn't Brian Joubert's new long program awful, at least at the first showing in Euros? Strictly speaking, it wasn't even a program. But he won with it.

Yes, it really was. Brian is using 2 completely different pieces of music badly mixed. Anyway most part of the program was on the music of Requiem for a dream, which was Tomas Verner's 2006 and 2007 long program music. It looked very strange to me - and to only-, normally no one wouldn't use your direct competitor's music of just 2 seasons ago. The second part is taken from Matrix instead. Yes, again :)

I actually happened to read some article where Brian himself told the program was built very quickly right before Euros, and he was working hard to make it a real program before Worlds and wanted to test it in the Hague. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to.

This thing about mixing different musics taken from different movie soundtracks, I can't get it. I mean, it doesn't work unless the musics are *very* similar, usually is something junior skaters do, and this doesn't suit Brian at all.
I prefered the Mohicans piece, at least there was a theme, he was trying to be a character, there was some kind of idea behind it.

I remember in Helsinki he told the media, "yea, the music doesn't really tell a story". What? Has he ever seen "Requiem for a dream" movie??

If anything, I have to question Contesti's PCS - from what I've seen of him, 74 seems excessive.

Funny many think the opposite. His programs are built very good, lots of content and an entertaining, detailed coreography. He is really an actor especially during the LP. I remember all the people standing up for him in Helsinki, it was such an intense program.. I hope he can be consistent!
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Yes, it really was. Brian is using 2 completely different pieces of music badly mixed. Anyway most part of the program was on the music of Requiem for a dream, which was Tomas Verner's 2006 and 2007 long program music. It looked very strange to me - and to only-, normally no one wouldn't use your direct competitor's music of just 2 seasons ago. The second part is taken from Matrix instead. Yes, again :)

I remember in Helsinki he told the media, "yea, the music doesn't really tell a story". What? Has he ever seen "Requiem for a dream" movie??
As Hsuhs pointed out, any discussion of Joubert is kind of peripheral to this thread because he couldn't compete in the Challenge Cup. A couple of things, though:

1. The new LP is one half The Matrix Reloaded - not the original Matrix (up to about 2:10) and one half Requiem for a Dream. I don't think they are that disconnected. But then that's a matter of personal preference.

2. I think - though I'm not 100% certain - that Brian's statement was that the program does not tell a story, not that the music doesn't tell a story - this being in contrast to his original Matrix program. I guess he just liked the music.

To me, it's not like Joubert and Verner both have the same music in the same season - though a Battle of the Requiems could've been interesting, especially since they have such different styles! I'd rather have someone skate to something another skater did two years ago than yet another tango (the time has come, I think, to say Adios to Nonino for a few years :)). Maybe they should let me pick their music, I have some great ideas for several skaters! :biggrin:
 
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NatachaHatawa

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
But isn't this year's LP of his practically the same as last year's? Kev rocked with that program in G-borg, and he rocked again yesterday (people in the arena went nuts :rofl:).

Speaking of awful, wasn't Brian Joubert's new long program awful, at least at the first showing in Euros? Strictly speaking, it wasn't even a program. But he won with it.

Well I've had a look at somebody's video from the event, and I must admit, it's quite different seeing Kevin's program from the audience's view to seeing it on TV. :clap:I'm glad because I love Kevin's skating, and the idea of him having an awful LP saddens me.

As for Brian's LP, it was overated, especially for "choreography". Although he skated it well, there was no real choraography. I just hope that for worlds he'll have brushed up that program.
 
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