Ladies Solo SP Jump

[Mathman]

Huh? Certainly you should penalize for "telegraphing", but mandatory -3? Lack of entrance steps is equal to the worst possible mistakes on the landing? That's pretty ridiculous. And what about:

lack of entry + perfect landing

vs.

lack of entry + terrible landing

Both have to be -3 then? Makes no sense when -3 is the worst possible GOE.

The rules are pretty specific (page 8).

http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=934

The reason for the severe penalty for "no steps" is that "steps into a solo jump" is a required element of the Short Program: -3, -GOE.

In other words, the "no steps" aspect is an automatic -3 penalty, and if the other aspects of the jump are "adequate," then -3 is what you get for the element.

However if other aspects of the jump (like flow out of the landing, for instance) are exceptionally good, then you can earn back one or two of those points. The total GOE on the element must be negative, however.

In general, the CoP does not keep piling on negative GOE for more and more errors on the same element. If you have a bad entrance AND a wrong edge AND a bad air position AND a fall on the landing...that's still just -3 (plus the extra one point penalty for the fall.)

The only error that is piled on top of everything else, and in addition to all the other penalties, is underrotation.

[gkelly]

In general, the CoP does not keep piling on negative GOE for more and more errors on the same element. If you have a bad entrance AND a wrong edge AND a bad air position AND a fall on the landing...that's still just -3 (plus the extra one point penalty for the fall.)

That was true of short program deductions under the 6.0 system as well. The maximum deduction was at least 0.4 though, in the last decade or so of the old system. I'm pretty sure that in the early 90s it was 0.5 and earlier than that up to 0.7 for the jump combination.

And, of course, the deduction (or several deductions for several flawed elements) was taken from one Required Elements score for the whole program.

The only error that is piled on top of everything else, and in addition to all the other penalties, is underrotation.

Also the fall deduction is piled onto anything else that might be wrong. So the worst penalty for one element in IJS would be -3 worth of GOE reductions AND a lower basemark for a downgraded jump AND an additional -1.00 for a fall.

[Mathman]

That was true of short program deductions under the 6.0 system as well. The maximum deduction was at least 0.4 though, in the last decade or so of the old system. I'm pretty sure that in the early 90s it was 0.5 and earlier than that up to 0.7 for the jump combination.

And, of course, the deduction (or several deductions for several flawed elements) was taken from one Required Elements score for the whole program.

And as I recall, it wasn't always completely clear that the judges were applying the penalty by the book. It seemed like sometimes a very good performance would end up with a suspiciously high score despite a "required" deduction.

Also the fall deduction is piled onto anything else that might be wrong. So the worst penalty for one element in IJS would be -3 worth of GOE reductions AND a lower basemark for a downgraded jump AND an additional -1.00 for a fall.

I used to think that this was not fair because it results in a negative total score for the element.

But I changed my mind when I realized that the fall penalty was not assigned specifically to the element, but was the same as if the skater fell just skating along, not doing any element at all.