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Thread: Why is the Lutz so difficult?

  1. #1
    I love you, Jeremy! GiuliaPlum's Avatar
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    Why is the Lutz so difficult?

    It looks like the "beast" for the Ladies, as well as the quad or the 3axel for the Men. Does anybody want to explain me why the Flip is an easier jump than the Lutz?

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    Basically, because the direction of rotation in the air is opposite to the direction of rotation of the edge leading into the jump.

    You need to hold the edge going in one direction (clockwise on left back outside for most skaters) and then reverse the direction of rotation (to counterclockwise for most skaters) just at the moment of vaulting off the pick.

    On all other multirotational jumps including the flip, the skater is already traveling in the same direction that the jump will rotate in the air.

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    I love you, Jeremy! GiuliaPlum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Basically, because the direction of rotation in the air is opposite to the direction of rotation of the edge leading into the jump.

    You need to hold the edge going in one direction (clockwise on left back outside for most skaters) and then reverse the direction of rotation (to counterclockwise for most skaters) just at the moment of vaulting off the pick.

    On all other multirotational jumps including the flip, the skater is already traveling in the same direction that the jump will rotate in the air.
    I don't get it yet the first sentence... the rotation of the edge. what edge is rotating? the one which hits the ice or the other one? I still don't get the difference between flip and lutz, except the inside-outside edge thing.
    Thank you.

  4. #4
    Sitting Here on Blue Jay Way silver.blades's Avatar
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    The counterrotation is in the shoulders. If you look at a lutz, the takeoff on the outside edge causes the shoulders to rotate in the opposite direction of the air rotation on the takeoff. On a flip the shoulders rotate the same direction as air rotation through the takeoff, so the jump flows thorough smoothly as opposed to the wind up and release action of the lutz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiuliaPlum View Post
    I don't get it yet ... the rotation of the edge. what edge is rotating? the one which hits the ice or the other one?
    Edges by their nature travel on curves (circles). Therefore they're always traveling either clockwise or counterclockwise, not in straight lines. Sometimes the circles are so big that the edges are shallow enough to look almost straight from a distance (this is true for many lutz and flip takeoffs), but to be a true edge it needs to be traveling on a curve, and as silver.blades mentions the skater controls the curve by rotating the shoulders.

    Most skaters do their fast rotations, in the air during jumps and on the ice during spins, in a counterclockwise direction. A smaller percentage of skaters prefer to rotate clockwise. Just like most people are right handed and some are left handed. (But there isn't a one-to-one relation between handedness and rotational preference.)

    It's easier to give examples for counterclockwise jumpers. Just imagine a mirror image of everything for clockwise skaters.

    For counterclockwise jumpers, the landing of all standard jumps is on the right back outside edge, which travels counterclockwise, the same direction as the rotation in the air.

    Most jumps also take off from edges that travel counterclockwise.

    A salchow, for example, takes off from a left back inside edge that's clearly curvy on the ice. It doesn't use a toepick; instead, in the process of jumping off the ice on a salchow takeoff, the skater uses the free leg and the upper body to suddenly make the medium-sized curve on the ice become the tight curve of rotating around the center of the body in the air.

    A flip takes off from left back inside edge that's usually almost straight but still traveling counterclockwise, with the shoulders already set to maintain a counterclockwise curve. When the skater vaults off the toepick, s/he also uses the upper body to change the big counterclockwise circle on the ice into the tight rotation in the air.

    The takeoff from a lutz is from a left back outside edge, which travels clockwise. The shoulders will be twisted toward the right to maintain the blade on that clockwise-traveling back outside edge. The skater is going to rotate counterclockwise in the air, so s/he needs to change directions in the process of jumping up into the air. That change of direction is what makes a lutz so tricky. The toepick facilitates the change of direction; the skater also needs to reverse the twist in the upper body, and the timing of that reversal needs to be precisely coordinated with the toepick action.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABcKI5MsOL8
    Here's an example in which you can see that the skater goes into the first jumping pass, a triple lutz-double loop combination, on a deep left back outside edge that is clearly traveling on a clockwise circle. As soon as he vaults into the air, he switches direction and immediately begins rotating counterclockwise. The landing of the lutz and the takeoff, rotation, and landing of the loop continue in the counterclockwise direction.

  6. #6
    Rinkside
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    The lutz and the dreaded pre-rotated takeoff

    The biggest issue with a lutz is that nearly everyone wants to lead with their upper body, which causes them to switch edges and go on an inside edge. Pre-rotation is a huge factor and is cured by a commitment to change and get a good draw.

  7. #7
    I love you, Jeremy! GiuliaPlum's Avatar
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    ohhh I got it! I had the illumination after 20 minutes of hard thought. It was so simple, actually!! Thank you so much!

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    representing Italy eleonora.d's Avatar
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    a very good example of lutz jump : you can see the outside edge is still an outside edge at the time she is about to fly into the air
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm76DPhYf14

  9. #9
    Eien.
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    Well it's because it's on an outside edge. duh.

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    That doesn't answer the question. Loops and toe loops take off from outside edges also, but they are easier than flips.

  11. #11
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    You probably have already had several replies on this but in a short answer it's because the Lutz involves a change of edge. It can be turned into looking like a Flip when one fails to do the take off properly. A Flip is usually done from a basic three turn.

  12. #12
    Eien.
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    I never loop and toe loops come from an outside edge. i guess its because the long change. o.o

  13. #13
    I love you, Jeremy! GiuliaPlum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipyramidal View Post
    I never loop and toe loops come from an outside edge. i guess its because the long change. o.o
    long change...?

  14. #14
    Eien.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiuliaPlum View Post
    long change...?
    idk sorry.

  15. #15
    Rinkside
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    Toe loops come from a three turn, Flips come from a rocker (or mohawk). Three turns generate more turning movement into the jump to "pre-rotate" into the actual take-off.

    I agree, most use their shoulders to pre-rotate into their lutz jumps to create the change into a flip take-off instead.

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