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Thread: Sasha Cohen's big gamble

  1. #61
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Particle Man View Post
    proponents of "olympic experience matters not medals!"
    I was taught in an American public school that one plays to win, but if not, one must accept the loss graciously. I'm sure that idea comes from the British and probably said much better than I have. Still something of participation should have merit. Unfortunately, in the Figure Skating World, participation is limited.

    According to the Rules of the USFS and the OIC, Sasha has a right to compete and bump someone off the USA team at Nats. Over and out.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    According to the Rules of the USFS and the OIC, Sasha has a right to compete and bump someone off the USA team at Nats. Over and out.
    I agree 100%. I don't care what her motives are to make a comeback, and I don't care if she just waltzes along to Nationals w/o competing all fall, and happens to make the team despite landing 3 triples. What bothers me is the very same people who complained how unfair it was that Michelle skipping the GP series for 3 seasons and then asking for a bye to the Olympic team based on her past accomplishments (which were as recent as the year before) are the very same people who are begging Sasha to make a comeback, lauding her as the best chance the US has for a Ladies' podium finisher. And all the while, Sasha is proclaiming if she comes back it's all about the journey, not the medals, after all she has no idea where her medals are.

    I'm sure it's not the actual medal that drives any of these athletes, it's the fame, glory and satisfaction knowing you are the best that day, that your hard work finally pays off. Does anyone truly believe Sasha will be more satisfied finally skating a brilliantly clean LP on the grand stage, yet NOT medaling than the skate she had that won her the Silver in 2006? I bet both scenarios would sting almost equally.

    If it's true that Sasha has been training on the side, doing all triples and working on 3/3's, and that she has been doing these things since the fall as reported, I think she's further along than if she were to just start serious training in June. Obviously she's kept up her spins and spiral, and the FW in "Moonlight Sonata" looks promising, so she probably isn't as far off track as some think when she falls on her salchow and two foots the toe.
    Last edited by MKFSfan; 03-12-2009 at 10:50 AM.

  3. #63
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I think one has to understand the psychology of Skaters and their avid Fans about a return to the Olys. For example, what was Witt trying to do in returning to compete in the Olys? I could only think she wanted to tie Henie's record, or just to remind all fans that she is the greatest. In her case, however, there were no other German Ladies to prevent them from the Olys, as far as I know.
    I think Witt's reason for coming back in 1994 (aside from the fact - the option was put there for all, so why not take it - like T&D and all the men who came back.) was that she wanted to skate in an Olympics so that her mum could watch her skate there in person - she had not been able to travel to Witt's other Olympic competitions.

    Also i think there was some controversy because Marina Kliemann had been in line for the second spot until Witt's re-instatment. Tanja Szewczenko won nationals so it was always a fight for teh second spot. The German federation said they would see the outcome of Europeans before naming the the second person. Szewczenko came 5th, Witt 8h and kilemann 9th. Kielmann stayed at home. It sounds fair enough to me but the decision was not without controversy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I was taught in an American public school that one plays to win, but if not, one must accept the loss graciously. I'm sure that idea comes from the British and probably said much better than I have. Still something of participation should have merit. Unfortunately, in the Figure Skating World, participation is limited.
    The phrase we have over here is "it's not the winning but the taking part that counts."

    Of course we're crap at sports (except football or "soccer") and even in that the last time GB won the football world cup was in the 1960s! Seriously though, those trying to turn around the dire sporting situation here in the UK do think that we need a bit more competitive drive. That wantnig to win should not be a "dirty word" in sports and that we've "taken part" enough now, let's start winning!

    Ant

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post

    Sasha has always enjoyed the limelight, and let's face it SOI doesn't have the glitter of an olympics. If I am correct on her need for limelight, I still believe it is a valid motivation but it also requires a lot of hard work. Is she ready to put in the time of hard work?
    Sasha's never been known for her strong work ethic and dedication to training. That put her at odds with both Tarasova and Wagner and scuttled her chance to upgrade her jumping skills.

    The only coach she's been able to get along with is Nicks, who pretty much lets her do what she wants. This is not the scenario for a successful return to competition after four years of nothing but show skating. Nicks himself told her if she took two years off, it would be very, very difficult for her to return to competition. The rumor is she's going back to Nicks if she opts for Vancouver, and the two years has stretched to four.

  5. #65
    Figure Skating Is A Dangerous Sport Dee4707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Sasha's never been known for her strong work ethic and dedication to training. That put her at odds with both Tarasova and Wagner and scuttled her chance to upgrade her jumping skills.

    The only coach she's been able to get along with is Nicks, who pretty much lets her do what she wants.
    I guess I've never really heard that she didn't have a strong work ethic...or is that according to Chuckm???

    As far as Mr. Nicks is concerned, I don't think you have it right....have you ever seen the vid where he makes her cry???

  6. #66
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    I think the main issue here is not if she compete or not but how she gets to Vancover. MOst probably we will only have 2 spots for the ladies. This means that Sasha would have to place in the top 2 at Nationals. If she can do that, then she will have proven herself fit to go and nobody can scream about "miss so and so was robbed" because sasha will have beaten her, fair and square, just as if that little girl was competeing 34 years ago.

    I can't see Sasha being granted a bye...with onlt 2 spots and since she has not competed in a long time, she is not the reigning olympic or world champion or ever was olympic or world champion.

    Sasha wants to go the Olympics like Rachel and Alissa and Caroline and Mirai and everybody else does...maybe more. She will be in the same competetion with all the other girls who want it that badly. If she can come out on top, or at least second best, then she will go, deserves to go.

    Sasha or no sasha, there will be a bunch of dissipointed skaters after nationals 2010. Wether sasha or somebody else gets the slot shouldn't matter to the person who didn't get it.

  7. #67
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    Sasha talked about how she thought the top 3 at nationals should go before Michelle dropped out. Michelle was coming off an injury that supposedly flared up and many people thought Michelle was kidding herself about returning for the Olympics and that is a reason why a lot of people thought Emily should go. Also in 2006 the Olympic previous gold medalist were 16, 15 and 16 so someone 25 was considered old until in 2006 when Arakawa won at 24. History shapes people's opinions.

    The reason I think Sasha is considering coming back is a few things. When Sasha tried acting she wasn't the best at it and her skating suffered. Sasha had to put in a lot time taking acting classes and doing auditions so no time to train even for shows really. That's not a good thing if skating is her job and acting is something potential for the future. Then she joined SOI and because her body wasn't used to being a full time skater last season she got sick a lot. She was pretty much sick the entire SOI season last year. So she started on a training regimen that included most of the stuff she had to do as a competitive skater. She also is really into all aspects of Yoga now. So Skating is pretty much her life now. Like it was as a competitor though she's not isolated yet. Why not start thinking about a return. It was a thing she left open for many reasons I'd assume. She's been trying to peak train this season trying to get back the training part of competing. It's a lot of hard work and she has been doing it.

    Sasha talked about how skating isn't forever but lately she has talked about Todd doing 3a's at 37 and Yuka Sato at 35 being a absolute fab skater still. Sasha is starting to realize that she can be a skater for a while longer. The best way to do that is to stay current and/or up her resume. If she makes the Olympic team she'll be a 3 time and current Olympian. She'll be competing with Mao and YuNa so the viewers will see Sasha competing with them. She has a better chance of being considered to skate at shows in other countries. In this current climate that is something to worry about if skating is her career.

    I'm sure Sasha's yoga meditation training is giving her the feeling that her life is okay without gold. It's the journey and the work you put into obtaining goals that matters at the end of the day.

    But we'll talking about Sasha here. Sasha knows that she'll get press by trying to make the Olympic team and if she makes that team she'll get a lot of attention. It's not about a gold medal at the Olympics because when the whole us team isn't considered a favorite it doesn't have to be about gold for Sasha to get that the crowd cheering for her and the media talking her good traits up. In her sport being an Olympian is a major and it has the chance to bring attention outside of the sport-perhaps more "acting", perhaps getting to design her own line, perhaps commentating in the future.

    I'm of mind to believe all of the above is on Sasha's mind.

    I really wish people would go back and re-read/watch those TT and Robin articles and videos. It's not that Sasha has a work ethic issues at all.

  8. #68
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    opps...double post...
    Last edited by MKFSfan; 03-12-2009 at 12:55 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee4707 View Post
    I guess I've never really heard that she didn't have a strong work ethic...or is that according to Chuckm???
    I don't think it's a question of work ethic per se, but the fact coaches have said she can be tough to train because she was so strong willed and would not conform to that coach's program.

    TT spoke of how hard she'd work, but then would not follow the schedule TT thought was best (where the baking cookies, competing at a Cheesefest sick, running before the LP at Worlds '03, etc. came into play).

    Robin complained that Sasha would rather work on the things she did well and not push outside the envelope (different spin/spiral positions, 3/3's, etc). But I don't think anyone actually accused Sasha of NOT working hard.

    Nicks enjoyed telling others that Sasha was different from the pretty, princessy, good girl stereotype. I read recently that Sasha didn't particularly enjoy Nicks making her out to be so tough to deal with and rebellious to get her more attention.

    As far as Mr. Nicks is concerned, I don't think you have it right....have you ever seen the vid where he makes her cry???
    Really? When was this-when Sasha deliberately deceived him and did a spin he specifically told her not to do? I forget the competition.

  10. #70
    Figure Skating Is A Dangerous Sport Dee4707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan View Post
    Really? When was this-when Sasha deliberately deceived him and did a spin he specifically told her not to do? I forget the competition.
    I don't know if Sasha deliberately deceived him because I don't know what went on in her mind or what her motives were. I will have to look again and watch the time frame.

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    If memory serves me right, Nicks said she did it on purpose, that she was set on a different combo spin than was planned, and that she went ahead and did it even though he said right before her skate do not do it. I wish I remembered where I saw it, pretty sure it was online somewhere, and as she came off the ice, you could tell Nicks was not happy and let her have it. She was visibly upset. I remember it coming up again in an interview with him as one of his examples how you can't tell Sasha what to do.

  12. #72
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Particle Man View Post
    So unless some US lady pulls off a miracle, our country is essentially going to be shamed.
    OK, but don't you think this is something of an exaggeration? For one thing, we can always mitigate our national humiliation by cheering for Lindsay Vonn to win a medal in skiing.

    I do not agree with the argument that says, Sasha should not return to competitive skating because she will be taking someone else's spot. As Tinymavy comments so appropriately above, if Sasha wins a spot then it is her spot, not someone else's.

    I also do not subscribe to the view that says, Sasha is our only hope, woe is us if she doesn't enter the fray. I will not commit hari-kiri if we send Rachael and Caroline, or if we send Ashley and Mirai, or even if we luck out and get three spots and have to send -- saints preserve us! -- Alissa.

    Yes, whoever goes will be trying to win a medal. And yes, they probably won't.

    Still, there is no reason to jump off a bridge if our girls end up 5th, 8th and 13th, Sasha or no Sasha.

  13. #73
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    About Sasha and Mr. Nicks, I think Nicks loved to do his schtick for the press. "Oh that Sasha, she's sure a pistol, I can't do a thing with her (wink, wink.)"

    It's that wry British humor we Yanks find so irresistible.

  14. #74
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    ^^^Most definitely so! He fired up his PR press and got her media attention by painting the picture his prodigy was deviating from the stereotypical ice princess/American Sweetheart as a way to set her apart. Definitely made for interesting reading!

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan View Post
    If memory serves me right, Nicks said she did it on purpose, that she was set on a different combo spin than was planned, and that she went ahead and did it even though he said right before her skate do not do it. I wish I remembered where I saw it, pretty sure it was online somewhere, and as she came off the ice, you could tell Nicks was not happy and let her have it. She was visibly upset. I remember it coming up again in an interview with him as one of his examples how you can't tell Sasha what to do.
    I think it was 2000 Junior Worlds where this took place. Sasha had to medal there in order to qualify for Senior Worlds. I believe they showed the whole thing with the spin on the Lifetime Network.

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