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Thread: Plushenko will honour us with his presence in 2010!

  1. #46
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    With the way the words arm flailing are being thrown around here, if some people call Plushenko an arm flailer, then Lambiel must be one of the top arm flailers.

    And for me, I certainly don’t consider Lambiel an arm flailer, and neither is Plushenko. There are many arm flailers out there, but Evgeni is not IMO. Both Lambiel’s and Plushenko’s arm movements are well balanced, energetic, and fit with the music.

    And pose is part of artistry, like form, position, body line and stretch. I was watching Skate Canada 2006 recently and thought Tomas Verner ‘s FP in it was not so different from Tomas’ this season’s FP. Less choreography, and almost just crossing over around the rink except for straight line step sequence. And his PCS at that time was 60. Now this season he was getting 76 ( ? ) at COR with almost similar choreography. I think it’s because of reputation.

    I think Plushenko’s PCS had reputation, and so do many other top skaters get reputation eventually, after they achieve a certain amount of success.
    It’s just a matter of agreeing with the judges or not. IMO.

  2. #47
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancingqueen View Post
    With the way the words arm flailing are being thrown around here, if some people call Plushenko an arm flailer, then Lambiel must be one of the top arm flailers.

    And for me, I certainly don’t consider Lambiel an arm flailer, and neither is Plushenko. There are many arm flailers out there, but Evgeni is not IMO. Both Lambiel’s and Plushenko’s arm movements are well balanced, energetic, and fit with the music.
    There is a world of difference, an enormous gaping void if you will, between Pluschenko's arm movements and Lambiel's arm movements. Lambiel did not flail his arms as if he was fighting balance checks left, right and centre. His movements were usually controlled and beautifully matched to the music.

    My beef with Pluschenko's arm movements (and actually whole body movements) are that they simply did not go with the music. Same with the frenetic step sequences. Particularly his SP circular step seuqnce in the last olympic season. He did a manic footwork seuquence to the quieter/softer part of the music. It would have shown far more interpretation and skill to skate and softer less frenetic step sequence for the circular and leave the manic head banging and arm flailing for the straightline where the music matched. The fact he did this with every footwork sequence said to me he was not capable of executing crisp clean turns slowly and under scrutiny. Alot of his fast steps look like step-out and balance checks. That is the main difference between Lambiel and Pluschenko footwork.

    And don't even get me started on the pelvic thrusts - Joubert take note - despite loving your SP music season - the opening pelvic thrusts make me want to puke!


    Quote Originally Posted by dancingqueen View Post
    I think Plushenko’s PCS had reputation, and so do many other top skaters get reputation eventually, after they achieve a certain amount of success.
    It’s just a matter of agreeing with the judges or not. IMO.
    I think the PCS are often reputation based where the skater bombs one program and the judges need to hold him/her up to stand a chance (like 6.0 days). I think more of an affect which Pluschenko benefitted from is - if you land the jumps, expecially the big elements (quads for the guys) then you will be given higher PCS.

    Ant

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    There is a world of difference, an enormous gaping void if you will, between Pluschenko's arm movements and Lambiel's arm movements. Lambiel did not flail his arms as if he was fighting balance checks left, right and centre. His movements were usually controlled and beautifully matched to the music.

    My beef with Pluschenko's arm movements (and actually whole body movements) are that they simply did not go with the music. Same with the frenetic step sequences. Particularly his SP circular step seuqnce in the last olympic season. He did a manic footwork seuquence to the quieter/softer part of the music. It would have shown far more interpretation and skill to skate and softer less frenetic step sequence for the circular and leave the manic head banging and arm flailing for the straightline where the music matched. The fact he did this with every footwork sequence said to me he was not capable of executing crisp clean turns slowly and under scrutiny. Alot of his fast steps look like step-out and balance checks. That is the main difference between Lambiel and Pluschenko footwork.

    And don't even get me started on the pelvic thrusts - Joubert take note - despite loving your SP music season - the opening pelvic thrusts make me want to puke!

    I think the PCS are often reputation based where the skater bombs one program and the judges need to hold him/her up to stand a chance (like 6.0 days). I think more of an affect which Pluschenko benefitted from is - if you land the jumps, expecially the big elements (quads for the guys) then you will be given higher PCS.

    Ant
    It’s just different view. You have your own image of artistry and I see it differently. Some of Lambiel’s arm & hands movements were a little casual and his form was not always good to me even though it was with music except for his Delarion program he did in worlds 2006.

    I think Plushenko benefit a lot for his PCS especially in Trino Olympics but he didn’t fall on jumps so many times like some other top skaters who fell but who were still getting high PCS.
    Last edited by dancingqueen; 03-11-2009 at 12:24 AM.

  4. #49
    The Zamboni Rocks!!! sillylionlove's Avatar
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    IHe actually made this announcement on his facebook page about a week and half ago. But I won't actually believe that he will be coming back until I am watching the Olympic Mens figure skating program on television and I see him skating!

  5. #50
    Figure Skating Is A Dangerous Sport Dee4707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    Plushenko was seen as an all around - athletic and artistic - skater, and was better than jumping bean Alexei Yagudin. That was why that Mishin paid more attention to Plushenko than to Alexei, and caused Alexei's disappointment. And finally, Alexei moved to Tatiana Tarasova.
    I will take this to mean that you are joking!!! I know that you can't really be serious.

    I found quite a bit of humor in your statement and thank God, Alexeil left Mishin.

  6. #51
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    Was anyone else under the impression that Plushy's body was being held together by chewing gum and string by the time of the 2006 Olympics? Did he have all his joints repaired afterward? If not, I will be very surprised if his body can withstand another year of elite training.

  7. #52
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdeal View Post
    I just hope, corrupt judging and ridiculously inflated Component points will not come back with him.
    inflated pcs and armflailing is like a caramel here when there is a plush thread... There have been ridiculous pcs since 2006 and a lot of posing and flailing too..but maybe these are not enough for winning so we forget them?
    i understand Pcs comment (euros and four continents this year comes in mind.. ) but corrupt judging??? do we say things here just for saying them?
    My beef with Pluschenko's arm movements (and actually whole body movements) are that they simply did not go with the music.
    i think tosca is the program that his circular didnt fit (although me i liked the whole program in his Ex Olympics) cause in most of his programs body and music fit..just my opinion, i m just curious do you think he didnt match music with body movements in Nijinsky or St peters 300?Cause i think even his fingers matched.
    This season he was skating in shows a tango and his circular was very slow, maybe he can do it, probably the fast one is more effective to judges+audience??I dunno... Or maybe it needs talent not to fall with frenetic arms and feet, if it was easy maybe more people would do it to get his level 4 footwork?
    pelvic thrusts is something he did in his teens up until 2002, i dont remember afterwards any program with this in choreo...didnt like it much also, but i understood it was an audience flirting thing..I remember the Once upon a time in America, people were going crazy....

    Where did he make announcement?I m not sure if there is an official facebook page or anything, i ve seen this discussion somewhere else also, i think it is pages of fans and the biggest one is from someone in Turkey or somewhere around there.
    Last edited by seniorita; 03-10-2009 at 04:18 PM.

  8. #53
    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fumie_fumie View Post
    I would rather see Sandhu come back. I would take Sandhu's drama, makeup, the ghost in his hotel rooms, beautiful-but-inconsistent 4t and bum-sticking-out-to-the-audience spins over Plushenko at any day.

    Ghost in his hotel rooms? What's that all about?

    I'd rather not see Plushenko come back. If I wanted to see him skate I'll watch the arms of a windmill during a windstorm.

  9. #54
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancingqueen View Post
    It’s just different view. You have your own image of artistry and I see it differently. Some of Lambiel’s arm & hands movements were a little casual and his form was not always good to me even though it was with music except for his Delarion program he did in worlds 2006.

    I think Plushenko benefit a lot for his PCS especially in Trino Olympics but he didn’t fell on jumps so many times like some other top skaters but was still getting high PCS.
    Plushenko for me is not musical. He is choreographed to stop and pose if the music allows for it. (I believe he has a lung condition.) His boisterous arm movements are choreographed to get the fans screeches - not to get with the music.

    Comparing Lambiel with Plushenko is way out of line. Have you ever seen a program of Spanish Dances including the Flamenco? To learn the Flamenco arm movements takes a lot of classes in spanish dancing. Plushenko's only spanish attempt, to my knowledge, was his March (paso doble) in Carmen. Not a difficult solo number.

    As to his jumping skills - yes, yes, yes. and his show-offy footwork with flailing arms? and Spins?

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    You. Said. Exactly. What. I. Was. Going. To. Say.
    Ditto

    Hope it won't be 'kinda' embarrassing, frankly.

  11. #56
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    he has done tango - flamenco in 2004 sp..but anyway i dont see plushenko having to do a spanish act cause he doenst fit in that style...as Lambiel doesnt fit in others..
    I ve never heard he has a lung condition but is he the only one that stops and poses during the program?I remember Lambiel, Joubert and even Buttle having stops in their programs, when Lambiel does it is choreography and when Plush does it is posing?
    And anyway whats wrong with skaters covering their weakness and showing their strengths...plushenko can speed from zero to max speed like none, maybe he was credited for that..
    bonne nuit

  12. #57
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    If he comes back, he comes back.

    If he games the system, he games the system.

    Then, I just hope that's one more data point and step toward fixing the system!

    Look at the 'logic' being applied: "I hope skater X doesn't come back, because he can get unfair points under CoP" OH! Well then, how about let's fix (or throw out) the !@#$ CoP system! :sheesh:

  13. #58
    Keeper of Bab's Death Stare... nubka's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Whoa, why is everyone so mean? What is this, the "Sasha and Michelle return" thread?

    I like Plushenko. Let him come back and show these no jump wonders what's what!

    I like Plushy, too! I hope he does come back. As for the other men...bring it on, and bring your A game!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    His boisterous arm movements are choreographed to get the fans screeches - not to get with the music.

    As to his jumping skills - yes, yes, yes. and his show-offy footwork with flailing arms? and Spins?
    Well, it worked for Evan (at least until this season...)
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 03-11-2009 at 11:06 AM. Reason: merging

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee4707 View Post
    I will take this to mean that you are joking!!! I know that you can't really be serious.

    I found quite a bit of humor in your statement and thank God, Alexeil left Mishin.
    Dee, unfortunately, It's the fact. I listed this fact without passion and prejudice. It is indeed funny to see Alexei as a jumping bean. But before he went to Tarasova, it was true that he was lack of artistry. From what I know about Mishin, which is very little, he is not my favorite person. Whether he has undermined Plushenko's natural talent, I don't know. Mishin has had another artistic skater Alexei Urmanov who was my another favorite skater before Alexei Yagudin and has won Olympic gold in 1992. Unfortunately, Urmanov's competitive career went down hill after the Olympics.

    I am so glad that Alexei went to Tarasova. She has brought out the best of him. Alexei Yagudin was my number one favorite of all time. Evgeni Plushenko was always the second best in their era. After Alexei left the scene, Plushenko had become the best until he stopped competing.

    It was Plushenko's "fault" that his 2006 Olympics performance has killed a lot of figure skating fans' memory about him. In the end, the only image they remembered was his ability to jump. It's not fair.
    Last edited by jennylovskt; 03-11-2009 at 12:09 AM.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Plushenko for me is not musical. He is choreographed to stop and pose if the music allows for it. (I believe he has a lung condition.) His boisterous arm movements are choreographed to get the fans screeches - not to get with the music.
    I don’t have a problem when skaters stop and pose during the performance as long as it’s based on the music and if the poses are well done. Only wonder why you pick on Plushenko for it while some other skaters were doing it, too. For me he is musical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Comparing Lambiel with Plushenko is way out of line.
    Because you are a Lambiel fanatic ? I love Lambiel’s skating too and love some of his programs but on the other hand, he’s not the only one who can do those kind of Latin programs. Although Sandhu fell on his jumps, his 2004 World’s SP Tango dancing performance was awesome.

    I don’t think Lambiel did his arm movements perfectly for every event. For me, Lambiel and Plushenko are comparable in many ways. IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Have you ever seen a program of Spanish Dances including the Flamenco? To learn the Flamenco arm movements takes a lot of classes in spanish dancing. Plushenko's only spanish attempt, to my knowledge, was his March (paso doble) in Carmen. Not a difficult solo number.
    Yes, I have seen Flamenco dance a few times, but I think skaters can skate with their own style with Spanish music as well and I can enjoy it, if it‘s well done, even if at times it may not be pure Spanish style. I loved Plushenko’s SP which was with Spanish music. In the worlds, there were also other programs from other skaters which impressed me too. But I thought Plushenko did great job with that performance. But my favorite of his is still Tribute to Nijinsky.

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