Plushenko will honour us with his presence in 2010!

antmanb · Mar 18, 2009

seniorita said:
because i had my doubts if i remembered right when i answered about plushy in 2000(nothing to do with rival with Yag), from wikipedia, plush was winning the first place from beginning of season 1999-2000 , whole season 2000-2001 and 2001-2002 until grand prix final, so it was not an excuse of injury of his rivals or luck, 16 out of 17 competitions he came first, with one interval of Worlds 2000 where he didnt lose only to yag but he popped the whole program big time, so he also lost to himself.
Out of subject, can anyone tell me when quad was introduced in sp?was ti 1998 or 99, i cant find that info.

I think that the quad was first allowed in the SP for the men starting from the the 1998/1999 season. It certainly was not allowed in the SP at 98 Olys or Worlds.

I think a poster recently mentioned that the quad could only be the solo jump as it wasn't allowed in the combination, but i wasn't sure about that. I can't go on youtube at work but i'm sure if you look for either Yags or Plush SPs from 98/99 season you will be able to see which jumps they do to verify any conditions on using the quad in the SP.

Ant

seniorita · Mar 18, 2009

Joesitz said:
It's not just the medals that I admire. btw, do you like any skater who is not Russian?

me i like any skater who is not a Joubert.

(i m joiking, sorry for interrupting, i ll go to my corner :rolleye:

)

thanx ant for info, i ll check!

Tonichelle · Mar 18, 2009

Mathman said:
But then again, you can't blame someone for liking one skater better than another, whether anyone skates perfect performances or not. Joe likes Abt and Klimkin. That's OK by me. Some of my personal favorites are Karam and O'keefe, Watanabe and Kido, and Vakhtang Murvanidze.

They are not as good as Navka and Kostomarov or Brian Joubert, but I still like them.

it seems to me there's a double standard going on in this thread. If you don't like Plushy you're a hater and you don't know what you're talking about, but any other skater is fair game... not sure how that works, but oh well. What do I know.

caran · Mar 18, 2009

Tonichelle said:
it seems to me there's a double standard going on in this thread. If you don't like Plushy you're a hater and you don't know what you're talking about, but any other skater is fair game... not sure how that works, but oh well. What do I know.

Really? Why I always has the opinion that the people don't like Plushy here are neutral, objective, fair, square without bias and personal emotion, just as the dog metaphor user? ......that's must be my misunderstanding

Fashionista · Mar 18, 2009

Mathman said:
But then again, you can't blame someone for liking one skater better than another, whether anyone skates perfect performances or not.

Sure. But I'm trying to understand one's logic. That's the first thing.
The second thing is that I didn't say a single word about Abt and Klimkin's qualities although saw several Joesitz's posts which sounded like oh, well, Plushenko and Yagudin? Those guys who had a couple of good skates and were always overrated by judges?
It seems to me a little bit unfair although - I'll tell you a secret - I've always disliked Plushenko, not to say more. Actually he irritated me and still does. Well, I hated him. To tell the truth.

Fashionista · Mar 18, 2009

Joesitz said:
btw, do you like any skater who is not Russian?

Actually there are only two pairs who seem ineteresting to me in Russian team - Dom/Shab and Il/Mais. Talking about juniors it's Martyusheva-Rogonov, Larionova and Ryazanova. All the others just pass me by.
I like Asada, Rippon, Amodio, Pechalat/Bourzat, Cap/Lan, Virtue/Moir but I'm not in love. I'm trying to find superpower but it seems it doesn't exist in now days figure skating.

Mathman · Mar 18, 2009

Fashionista said:
I'll tell you a secret - I've always disliked Plushenko, not to say more.

I had a chance to meet Plushenko once at a cheesefest. He was very nice and friendly to the fans. And he went the extra mile in being courteous and gentlemanly towards the lady skaters in the show.

He seemed especially to be friends with Michelle Kwan. (Anyone who is nice to Michelle Kwan is automatically my friend.

)

I also met Yagudin, at 2002 Skate America. He was skating in a lot of pain because of his hip situation. He won the short but was not able to continue in the long. Even so he showed respect for the audience by dressing for the LP and taking the ice to make his announcement that he would not be able to continue. That was cool, and the audience appreciated the fact that he gave everything he had.

seniorita · Mar 18, 2009

From what i ve seen the so called plushy fans usually also liked yagudin, acknowledged his skating talent, root for other skaters too and dont complain about the times plush was defeated by yag or joubert (i have a small question mark for grand prix final 2002 because plushenko's Cirque du Soleil was an awesome program) , I m not sure about the other way around...
One little, tiny thing i minded in yagudin once was the Skate Canada 2003-2004 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ZFwcpCOzc
, everybody applauded plush in Nijiinki and even more cause he was skating with both knees seriously injured,but Yag didnt even when the camera was on him..apart from that both had made silly-rival-ish declarations that I never minded..

I also met plushy twice and he was very polite and funny, spent 1 +1/2 hour talking with people, but my general impression was that he is a bit shy outside the rink, he seemed like he prefers to be in his bubble.

SusieH · Mar 19, 2009

seniorita said:
One little, tiny thing i minded in yagudin once was the Skate Canada 2003-2004 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ZFwcpCOzc
, everybody applauded plush in Nijiinki and even more cause he was skating with both knees seriously injured,but Yag didnt even when the camera was on him..apart from that both had made silly-rival-ish declarations that I never minded..

I believe Skate Canada 2003 is the occasion where Yagudin gave his farewell speech to skating fans (he also did a touching performance, skating to Michael Nyman's Memorial). Maybe he was just too immersed in his thoughts and emotions to notice anything else. Besides, maybe he did applaud (a short one I suppose), but the camera just didn't catch that moment.

Thanks for the link. I happened to rewatch Yagudin's Memorial a month or so ago. I remember I thought to myself how strange the fate was that Yagudin was saying his farewell at the competition where Plushenko claimed gold (and Plusy went to Skate Canada only twice), and I wondered what Plusy was thinking at that very moment and suddenly wanted to see his face very much. I couldn't find any links at youtube then. So here is my thanks to you

ETA: I'm a Yagudin fan, but I also can appreciate Plusy's merits in skating. If he wants to come back and works hard to achieve this goal, why not? Best of luck to him!

skatingbc · Mar 19, 2009

Another article about Evgeni's comeback

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskating/story/2009/03/18/sp-figureskating-plushenko.html

Buttercup · Mar 19, 2009

skatingbc said:
Another article about Evgeni's comeback

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskating/story/2009/03/18/sp-figureskating-plushenko.html

In the comments section, someone wrote that the Russians have wonderful footwork and that of the men, only Patrick Chan "pays attention to this skill" nowadays. That's just laughable - Chan's got great step sequences, but come on, he's by no means the only one who's good at it. Not to mention that as fun and exciting as Yagudin's footwork was in 2002, it wasn't the hardest we've ever seen technically.

The article itself mentions that Plushy already has two quads - am I the only one who finds this hard to believe?

skatingbc · Mar 19, 2009

Buttercup said:
In the comments section, someone wrote that the Russians have wonderful footwork and that of the men, only Patrick Chan "pays attention to this skill" nowadays. That's just laughable - Chan's got great step sequences, but come on, he's by no means the only one who's good at it. Not to mention that as fun and exciting as Yagudin's footwork was in 2002, it wasn't the hardest we've ever seen technically.

The article itself mentions that Plushy already has two quads - am I the only one who finds this hard to believe?

I think that a ton of the men nowadays have good footwork. Patrick's works best for be because of the high level of difficulty and the flow throughout. I've been watching some Plushenko performances via Youtube the past couple days to see how I feel about this, and his footwork is booooooooooo-ring. A couple brackets here, a couple mohawks there and the best part...a lunge! I feel like his performances were good jump-wise, but there's nothing else there. I feel like I'm watching a robot when he's skating. JMO, but if he's only working on jumps at the moment, he's going to have some problems.

And also, the comment about the quads was coming from his agent. He might not be the most accurate source.

Buttercup · Mar 19, 2009

skatingbc said:
IAnd also, the comment about the quads was coming from his agent. He might not be the most accurate source.

That's one reason I found it hard to believe.

Plushy was very good at the overwrought, windmilling arms kind of step sequences that CoP rewards. My feeling has always been that some skaters make it seem like they're doing something difficult, while others do difficult elements and make them look smooth, flowing and easy. I don't blame Plushenko for taking advantage of the system, but I'd rather watch skaters from the second group.

seniorita · Mar 19, 2009

Everybody went crazy with his straight footwork, but I always liked his circular steps especially when he used to throw an axel right after it.
In a report somewhere posted here of a journalist that went to watch a daily training of plushenko, he wrote he was jumping quad toe after some first failed attempts and did quad salcow but probably as a part of training to have a steady tripe cause plushenko himslef said he wont use this.

Mathman · Mar 19, 2009

I agree that Patrick Chan has something special going on in the footwork category. His feet are constantly in motion. He is about the only skater besides Kurt Browning :bow:

where you actually watch his feet during the footwork section (also Kozuka.) :rock:

Buttercup · Mar 19, 2009

seniorita said:
From what i ve seen the so called plushy fans usually also liked yagudin, acknowledged his skating talent, root for other skaters too and dont complain about the times plush was defeated by yag or joubert

I have never had the impression that fans of any one skater were more or less polite or complimentary than fans of any other skater. And I'm sorry, but I have met few Plushenko fans who liked Yagudin (and vice versa). And Brian only beat him once, and it was pretty obvious the right result.

Plushenko was not a favorite of mine and I have written critical posts about his skating. I have also tried to temper this with pointing out the positive aspects of his performances and career, which were obviously many. I know not everyone does that, and some people take criticism too far. But Plush is hardly the only skater to be the focus of negative comments. The top skaters will always have fans alongside detractors.

It seems as though all of us are more sensitive to criticism and negativity directed at our favorites, be it justified or not. For instance, I like Joubert and Carolina Kostner, and it certainly gives me no joy to see harsh comments about them - and there are many, as you are probably aware, and not just about their skating. I hope that even those of us who don't like certain skaters will stick to discussing their skating - ok, and their costumes and makeup - and do so without nastiness (IMO, there is an acceptable level of snark, though

).

Mathman, I agree Chan has excellent footwork. I don't find it special as in innovative or unique - just very, very well executed. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that! But he's certainly not the only one whose feet I watch during step sequences, and he is by no means the only skater paying attention to footwork. That's like saying Stephane Lambiel was the only one paying attention to spins - when the more accurate statement is that he was really good at it.

dizzydi7 · Mar 19, 2009

Evgeni will honour us with his presence come 2010

I've never been a fan of Evgeni. I do acknowledge his jumping ability and fast footwork. However, I've never appreciated his flapping arms during the the foot work segment of his programs. His style of skating IMHO lacked grace and artistry which to me is what figure skating is all about.

Yagudin, however was always a favorite of mine. His style of skating is more my cup of tea.

I'm not enthusiastic about an Olympic return for Evgeni because I don't enjoy his skating but then again.....I won't be forced to watch!

Dizzy

seniorita · Mar 19, 2009

buttercup i was actually replying to this post

Tonichelle said:
it seems to me there's a double standard going on in this thread. If you don't like Plushy you're a hater and you don't know what you're talking about, but any other skater is fair game... not sure how that works, but oh well. What do I know.

of course I dont think any fans are more special or polite than the other, but I dont agree with the above statement about plushenko's fans also, or the flea and dog example -seemed a bit harsh to me-, and of course Joubert beat him fair and square in Euros,actually I agree with all your content of your post, i hope you didnt misunderstood my sayings

Buttercup · Mar 19, 2009

seniorita said:
buttercup i was actually replying to this post

of course I dont think any fans are more special or polite than the other, but I dont agree with the above statement about plushenko's fans also, or the flea and dog example -seemed a bit harsh to me-, and of course Joubert beat him fair and square in Euros,actually I agree with all your content of your post, i hope you didnt misunderstood my sayings

Your post was fine - I just wanted to reply because I thought it was a good basis for discussion, and picked your post. But what I wrote was in reference to several things I saw in this thread. I think you've done a great job here explaining why you like Plushenko, and I agree the flea/dog bit was in poor taste. Someone also mentioned hating Plush, which strikes me as a pretty extreme thing to write about a skater. I wouldn't even say I hate anyone's skating. There are just some skaters that don't engage my interest, or whose style I don't care for, and who I feel are overmarked; but that's as far as I would go.

I just feel we all tend to be a bit more defensive where our favorites are concerned.

seniorita · Mar 19, 2009

I totally agree, there are some skaters that make you glue on tv and some that you can have a break at the kitchen/bathroom, since fs includes presentation is not an objective sport,by the way I said I dont like Joubert but somehow I dont want to miss a performance of him also when competition is on.
I like Patrick Chan but it is still early for him, his footwork is great technicaly and his use of edges, but probably me I m used to crossovers of Plush and I find Chan's programs too loaded, it makes me anxious!Cant help it!

Worlds are coming, spring has come , i m excited

Plushenko will honour us with his presence in 2010!

antmanb

seniorita

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

caran

Fashionista

Fashionista

Mathman

seniorita

SusieH

skatingbc

Buttercup

skatingbc

Buttercup

seniorita

Mathman

Buttercup

dizzydi7

seniorita

Buttercup

seniorita

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