Plushenko will honour us with his presence in 2010!

[seniorita]

Sorry it is my english, by deserve i dont mean anyone should give it to Joubert or anyone else if he doesnt win it that night, i just meant that joumbert is the most expected to win the OG according to how he skates the last few years.
For plushenko it was different for me, I was ultra happy because it was the medal he wanted after a long career. Of course if in Torino someone else had won it and still it was given to plushenko i wouldnt have liked it at all.
Personally I would love to see Takahashi coming back strong and fight for gold and by some magical way i would love to see kozuka on podium cause I adored him at worlds.And weir. If plushy comes back i need a podium with 4 places.

[Buttercup]

and it is not flies, it is bees..

No, you're getting the guys confused - it was Alban who had bee issues, and he and Plushy are not at all alike .

[seniorita]

preubert?when did he have insects problems?I dont remember his lp, only his radiohead sp
you have to think of the intensity the skater acts with to get rid of whatever is around his head,in plushy's case it cannot be flies nor butterflies

[Blades of Passion]

Ugh. No Daisuke is way more of a headcase than Joubert. May I point out to you 2008 worlds, where Daisuke even did an Oda (did four combos) along with the multiple screw ups. He's only had one good worlds, and even then he put himself far back enough in the short program to take it out of his hands.

Doing extra combos is not a mistake in the objective sense. It's just extra - worth nothing. CoP is simply bad and penalizes it rather than ignoring it.

Brian consistently leaves out combinations. I see that as a bigger mistake than doing extra.

P.S. - Dai was only "far enough back" in the SP at 2007 Worlds because of, yet again, bad CoP rules. His SP was beautiful and he should have won that World Championships after the LP, not Joubert.

[Buttercup]

Doing extra combos is not a mistake in the objective sense. It's just extra - worth nothing. CoP is simply bad and penalizes it rather than ignoring it.

Brian consistently leaves out combinations. I see that as a bigger mistake than doing extra.

P.S. - Dai was only "far enough back" in the SP at 2007 Worlds because of, yet again, bad CoP rules. His SP was beautiful and he should have won that World Championships after the LP, not Joubert.

We've had this discussion before, I believe... But here goes, most of it OT: figure skaters have rules to play by, namely the judging system. Disregarding those rules, even unintentionally, has consequences. Doing extra combinations is a mistake in that it is unplanned and offers no strategic benefits to a skater. On the other hand, occasionally watering down a program does make sense strategically, as it did for Joubert in 2007 but not in 2008 or 2009 (it wasn't that watered down, BTW: with a quad to start and all his combos after the halfway point, Brian still scored over 157, and over 240 overall). It's only a mistake if the tactics don't work; otherwise, it's neither here nor there - maybe a let down for some of those watching, but not a stupid mistake like a Zayak violation, which after five full years under CoP, nobody should be making.

I fail to see how the system left Dai far behind after the SP at 2007 Worlds. Dai chose to do a 3-3 rather than a 4-3 (bad tactics, since he can do quads) and then URd the 3T. You can't blame that on the system. I agree URs can be overly penalized because of the lower base value and low GOEs, but Takahashi's GOEs weren't that bad. He also didn't max his spin levels, while Joubert did. Dai dug himself too deep a hole and paid the price by missing out on 1st place. "Beautiful" is subjective, but technically Joubert did more in the SP and could afford to play it safe the next day (mind you, he was still recovering from an injury, so that year he and JCS probably made the right call).

I think, BTW, that both guys can be headcases, but then again, most of the guys aren't exactly models of consistency these days.

ETA: Seniorita, here's Alban's Bee SP. Plushy's arm movements would indicate a bigger threat, perhaps hornets?

[seniorita]

plush was chasing mosquitos compared to that i had forgotten about that program, it seems loooooooong ago. I like Preubert 's skating, but i wish he could fix his posture, it is bad.

I think the biggest headcase in the history of fs is sandu, he could be one of the best if not the best skater in the world, lol, his mind was like short circuit when he competed. Black out.
why do you call the extra combo Zayak violation?

[bekalc]

It's not just that Daisuke Zakayed it's also his failure to earn 2 spots for the Japan at the Olympics in 2005, the fact that he made multiple errors at that World championships last year, and not just the combination thing. The only "major" title Daisuke has is Four Continents and that's likely for a very good reason. (Although he should have GPF from 2008) Joubert has his headcase issues, all the men do, but he's less of a headcase than Daisuke is.

[Blades of Passion]

I agree URs can be overly penalized

Yes, and that right there is enough. A competition being decided by an incorrect "rule" rather than the performances.

When I say someone should have won I don't necessarily mean under the exact current CoP rules. I mean objectively.

Just because a law or rule is in place, that doesn't mean it should be seen as correct. You can not change the past, but you can gain a better perspective. Multitudes of artists in the past were not given proper credit because of laws that stated their religious/political beliefs were invalid and therefore their work was not allowed to be published. Under the system they lived in, they were not seen as "winners".

Joubert will always have the title of 2007 World Champion, but it's nothing but a notation in a history book. We can decide for ourselves who the best was.

Also, even with the unfair UR penalty Takahashi should have won under the exact CoP system of 2007. Joubert's program component scores in the LP were ridiculous. He should have been WAY behind Lambiel and Takahashi on that mark, but he wasn't. That was just bad judging.

It's not just that Daisuke Zakayed it's also his failure to earn 2 spots for the Japan at the Olympics in 2005, the fact that he made multiple errors at that World championships last year, and not just the combination thing. The only "major" title Daisuke has is Four Continents and that's likely for a very good reason. (Although he should have GPF from 2008) Joubert has his headcase issues, all the men do, but he's less of a headcase than Daisuke is.

Wow, talk about BIAS.

Did you seriously bring up Daisuke not doing well at the Worlds in 2005, when Joubert also did very poorly at that event?

Daisuke made multiple mistakes at the 2008 World Championships, but so did Joubert. Have you forgotten about Joubert falling, singling a jump, and leaving out another jump altogether?

[seniorita]

plushy in ice gala torino, new costume, new program (nice music,i have no idea what it is), he looks like he lost his weight
the video shows a part of it and it is from the audience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWajGDBRKpk

[oxade21]

Yeah, Plushy is BACK!!!!!

[bekalc]

Daisuke is.

Wow, talk about BIAS.

Did you seriously bring up Daisuke not doing well at the Worlds in 2005, when Joubert also did very poorly at that event?

Daisuke made multiple mistakes at the 2008 World Championships, but so did Joubert. Have you forgotten about Joubert falling, singling a jump, and leaving out another jump altogether?

Joubert at least finished in the top 10 in 2005 worlds. And he medaled at 2008 Worlds, where as Daisuke had a disasterous skate.

Also Joubert has had more than just "one" good skate at worlds. He was excellent in 2004, 2006, and you can say 2007. Yes, Brian is a bit of a headcase as well, but I'm not sure how you can compare what Joubert did in 2008 to well what Daisuke did (and Daisuke imploded in 2008).

[Blades of Passion]

Placement in 2005 is very relative. First of all, he was newer to the scene and didn't have the judges' respect. Second of all, he was injured going into the LP. He did a Quad/Triple and all the other hard jumps in the SP, though.

And, a meltdown in 2008? Are you kidding? His LP was the most difficult we've seen from anyone in the past couple years. He may have fallen twice but he still executed a Quad, a Triple Axel, and 5 other Triples...all while skating with great speed and flow. He finished 4th place and would have finished 3rd, had his last jump not been unfairly worth 0 points. That is a good showing, not a bad one.

BTW - this is a Plushenko thread, so we should probably get back to that.

[psycho]

And, a meltdown in 2008? Are you kidding? His LP was the most difficult we've seen from anyone in the past couple years. He may have fallen twice but he still executed a Quad, a Triple Axel, and 5 other Triples...all while skating with great speed and flow. He finished 4th place and would have finished 3rd, had his last jump not been unfairly worth 0 points. That is a good showing, not a bad one.

Of course it was a meltdown! He went in as an overwhelming favourite, was in good position after the short (two major headcases ahead of him and all the contenders behind him) and then proceeded to fall twice and lose a medal to Johnny Weir who had the worst FS of his season! He was something like 40 points out of first place, and taking into account that people were ready to mail him the gold that year, yeah, that was a meltdown.

Joubert has issues, but compared to some of his competitors he's not a headcase. On a scale from 1 (Sandhu) to Ten (Plushenko) Joubert is a 6. Daisuke is a 4 at best.

[Blades of Passion]

That's simply not the definition of a meltdown.

And, again, he lost out on a medal because of a bad rule. NOT because of a lack of quality in his skating.

[psycho]

That's simply not the definition of a meltdown.

And, again, he lost out on a medal because of a bad rule. NOT because of a lack of quality in his skating.

And what is?

And even if you take COP out of this or that jump rule, Johnny still would have beat him because Johnny skated cleanly and he fell all over himself. Even in 6.0 he would have lost. Sorry.